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Bought some guns, need some help......

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GANGGREEN

45 Cal.
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
1,300
Reaction score
533
Location
Coudersport, PA
Just curious what I've got here. The 2nd from the bottom is a Joe Schell NC rifle. It's nice and I like it, but I'd prefer if it was a flintlock. Any idea what that lock is or if I can simply screw the drum out and screw a touch-hole liner in, then find a flintlock that would fit that existing mortise? If not I'll live with it as a percussion, I like the rifle, .36 caliber.

2nd from the top was advertised as a 14 gauge English fowler. I don't know enough about them to know what makes it an English fowler versus a Virginia, New England or whatever (other than the obvious if it was made in England). I haven't mic'ed it to see what the actual gauge/caliber is, but it's larger than a .62 for sure. I also don't see any stamps or maker's mark and don't know who may have made the barrel or the lock and was hoping someone could tell me something about the gun. It appears to be a Damascus barrel, though it's not one of the really fancy Damascus designs. It's got an ebony cap and the engraving on lock, triggerguard and tang are fairly nice. Any thoughts about who/where/when or what the approximate value would be? The lock is very tight andvery strong and aside from a small gap at the breech (I presume this is a hooked breech), the gun's in outstanding condition and probably able to be shot. The other issue is that there's a crack on the sideplate side going from the barrel all the way to the trigger, so I'll likely need to take the gun apart, squeeze some super glue or wood glue in there and re-clamp it if that's wise to do. Sure appreciate any info about what I've got here.

Bottom rifle was described as a .35 caliber original with a Goulcher lock. I don't doubt that it is an original Goulcher lock, but I have a hard time imagining the rest of the gun is original because the condition is just too nice (other than the lock which shows a good bit of wear). The barrel is clean and isn't stamped, although the seller claimed that it's stamped Tryon underneath. The bore is super clean and the rifling is very shallow. Thoughts about this gun are appreciated as well.

The top gun is obviously a modern build. It's supposed to be a 1.125" Getz barrel, .54 caliber and the gun was well built, although it's butt ugly because of the depth and squareness of the wrist, lock area and forestock. I don't know if the builder did it intentionally for strength or if he just did a poor job removing wood. I don't doubt that this thing probably shoots lights out, but it's just not my cup of tea, partly because it's a percussion and partly because it weighs half a ton. Not sure if I'd sell it or take it apart, sell the barrel and use the lock and triggers for another project. Seems a shame to do that though.

I'll be out of town for much of the next two weeks, so may not see everyone's thoughts on this thread, but I am really curious what you all might tell me about the guns and I will check in and replay at a later date for sure. Thanks in advance for any education you can all provide.
DSCN3293.JPG
 
Looks like amazing figure in the one on top. It would be a shame to scrap it to parts if it could be reworked.
 
Agreed regarding that top gun. The build quality is actually quite good, tight inlets, etc. and as you point out, it's a beautiful piece of wood, If I could re-use the stock on an upcoming build that would be one thing, but I'm not going to build something with a 1 1/8" barrel anytime soon (or likely ever), so I'll keep it together, shoot it for fun or possibly sell it.
 
#1 is too ugly to comment on
#2 is probably English made probably around 1850 give or take. Value depends on how bad the crack is. $200-$600.
#3 Nice Joe Schell rifle. Leave as is and enjoy.
#4 I'd guess New York, maybe as late as 1870. Not a huge value, maybe $400 to the right person. Shoot and enjoy.
 
#1 is too ugly to comment on
#2 is probably English made probably around 1850 give or take. Value depends on how bad the crack is. $200-$600.
#3 Nice Joe Schell rifle. Leave as is and enjoy.
#4 I'd guess New York, maybe as late as 1870. Not a huge value, maybe $400 to the right person. Shoot and enjoy.

Much appreciated. Believe me, I bought them right, so I'm not too worried about the values, I just wanted to know if something in the group was really exceptional or of higher value than I may have thought. I would have guessed that the fowler would have been the most valuable and I'd still love to know a bit more about it. As for the first one, I agree, butt ugly, but it was well-built, which strikes me as odd. I have little doubt that it will shoot lights out with that heavy Getz barrel though. Like I said before, it's not my cup of tea for a few reasons, so if any of them eventually end up on Swap and Trade, this would be the one.
 
Hi,
The fowler is probably English but it could also be a Belgian copy. There are likely proof marks on the bottom of the barrel and I suspect they will be Birmingham or Belgian proofs. Your photos are not sufficiently large or clear to say much else. Better photos would help. A close up in good light of the lock on the fowler and the barrel at the breech. Also remove the barrel and look underneath the breech.

dave
 
The thing with #1 is, that the builder put finish on it before it actually WAS finished. I'd ignore the finish and get rid of the extra cellulose and finish it. You're stuck with the barrel inlet though.

The very short fore end on #2 is interesting.
 
I'm also curious what people's thoughts are about the possibility of "reclaiming" the fowler. I already pointed out a crack on the stock and while it's otherwise great condition, it would surely clean up real purty and I wouldn't mind hunting birds with it occasionally. I know that many people feel it's heresy to even mention the idea of trying to refinish an old gun, but if the collector value is rather limited anyway, I'd probably be inclined to clean it up and enjoy it (though I admit to being a bit nervous about what to do around the checkering since you obviously couldn't sand or scrape it down in that area).
 
The thing with #1 is, that the builder put finish on it before it actually WAS finished. I'd ignore the finish and get rid of the extra cellulose and finish it. You're stuck with the barrel inlet though.

The very short fore end on #2 is interesting.

Yeah, it is a short forend and I presume it's how the gun was built, but I'm not that familiar with them. As for #1, I completely agree. If I keep the gun I'll definitely take a lot of wood off. That said, even when/if I do, it's still going to be a large, heavy cumbersome gun and I'm just not the bench rifle kind of guy. It's made of good parts and as I said, when the initial builder did the gun, he hit the inlets out of the park, so I'm not sure why so clunky otherwise (and believe it or not, the photograph actually makes the gun look a bit trimmer if that's at all possible).
 
Hi,
None of the photos you have provided can allow a knowledgeable person to assess your fowler. Refrain from photographing using artificial light. Wait for an overcast day and take pictures in that natural light. Then they won't have glare obscuring the important details and again, we need to see the bottom of the barrel at the breech in good light.

dave
 
Hi,
None of the photos you have provided can allow a knowledgeable person to assess your fowler. Refrain from photographing using artificial light. Wait for an overcast day and take pictures in that natural light. Then they won't have glare obscuring the important details and again, we need to see the bottom of the barrel at the breech in good light.

dave

I'll do it Dave. I had just gotten them home when I took the photos and I now have to be away for much of the next two weeks, then have some home renovations going on when I return, so I'm not sure how soon I can remove the barrels and properly photograph, but I will. I greatly appreciate your expertise and help with things.
 
Hi Gangreen,
The fowler looks very nice and I suspect (and hope) that it was made by a well known British maker. I should be able to tell much more with clearer photos.

dave
 
Hi Gangreen,
The fowler looks very nice and I suspect (and hope) that it was made by a well known British maker. I should be able to tell much more with clearer photos.

dave

Nice. I hope you're suspicions are correct as well and I can't wait to hear your thoughts when I'm able to give you details and appropriate photos. Thanks again.
 
What ever you do, don't mess with the finish on that fowler. Let somebody else love it and use it before you do that. Although I don't need a 1/2 stock English fowling gun I'd buy it from you just to save it.
 
Just curious what I've got here. The 2nd from the bottom is a Joe Schell NC rifle. It's nice and I like it, but I'd prefer if it was a flintlock. Any idea what that lock is or if I can simply screw the drum out and screw a touch-hole liner in, then find a flintlock that would fit that existing mortise? If not I'll live with it as a percussion, I like the rifle, .36 caliber.

2nd from the top was advertised as a 14 gauge English fowler. I don't know enough about them to know what makes it an English fowler versus a Virginia, New England or whatever (other than the obvious if it was made in England). I haven't mic'ed it to see what the actual gauge/caliber is, but it's larger than a .62 for sure. I also don't see any stamps or maker's mark and don't know who may have made the barrel or the lock and was hoping someone could tell me something about the gun. It appears to be a Damascus barrel, though it's not one of the really fancy Damascus designs. It's got an ebony cap and the engraving on lock, triggerguard and tang are fairly nice. Any thoughts about who/where/when or what the approximate value would be? The lock is very tight andvery strong and aside from a small gap at the breech (I presume this is a hooked breech), the gun's in outstanding condition and probably able to be shot. The other issue is that there's a crack on the sideplate side going from the barrel all the way to the trigger, so I'll likely need to take the gun apart, squeeze some super glue or wood glue in there and re-clamp it if that's wise to do. Sure appreciate any info about what I've got here.

Bottom rifle was described as a .35 caliber original with a Goulcher lock. I don't doubt that it is an original Goulcher lock, but I have a hard time imagining the rest of the gun is original because the condition is just too nice (other than the lock which shows a good bit of wear). The barrel is clean and isn't stamped, although the seller claimed that it's stamped Tryon underneath. The bore is super clean and the rifling is very shallow. Thoughts about this gun are appreciated as well.

The top gun is obviously a modern build. It's supposed to be a 1.125" Getz barrel, .54 caliber and the gun was well built, although it's butt ugly because of the depth and squareness of the wrist, lock area and forestock. I don't know if the builder did it intentionally for strength or if he just did a poor job removing wood. I don't doubt that this thing probably shoots lights out, but it's just not my cup of tea, partly because it's a percussion and partly because it weighs half a ton. Not sure if I'd sell it or take it apart, sell the barrel and use the lock and triggers for another project. Seems a shame to do that though.

I'll be out of town for much of the next two weeks, so may not see everyone's thoughts on this thread, but I am really curious what you all might tell me about the guns and I will check in and replay at a later date for sure. Thanks in advance for any education you can all provide.View attachment 3267
Homer Dangler was a famous rifle builder in the 1970s. built a lot of rifles. wrote books and articles. sold a line of stock stains and browning solution. might be worth a lot of money. i would not mess with it.
 
Homer Dangler was a famous rifle builder in the 1970s. built a lot of rifles. wrote books and articles. sold a line of stock stains and browning solution. might be worth a lot of money. i would not mess with it.
 
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