Bouncing and buzzing frizzen.

[Kansas Kid]

Left hand L&R classic Siler style with roller frizzen. Have owned this Issac Haines style 40 Colerain A weight rifle for many years. It never has shot worth a hoot in spite of trying many things. My latest thing to blame is the lock with its bouncing and buzzing frizzen. It buzzes and vibrates the whole rifle when fired. My little Manton style lock with roller frizzen is dead quiet with no buzzing.

Short of replacing with another lock or maybe a standard frizzen I’m open to thoughts.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Left hand L&R classic Siler style with roller frizzen. Have owned this Issac Haines style 40 Colerain A weight rifle for many years. It never has shot worth a hoot in spite of trying many things. My latest thing to blame is the lock with its bouncing and buzzing frizzen. It buzzes and vibrates the whole rifle when fired. My little Manton style lock with roller frizzen is dead quiet with no buzzing.

Short of replacing with another lock or maybe a standard frizzen I’m open to thoughts.

Don't give up! I am sure there are some good ideas coming at you. Please expound bouncing and buzzing? Right off the bat, something is loose, too tight or not balanced. Give us some more info and a photo.
Larry

 

[Kansas Kid]

It never bounces to the point of coming back over center. I would liken it to a jaw harp twang. It bounces and twangs between the last maybe 5 degrees of the arc. It’s loud and you definitely feel it through the entire rifle.

It’s one of my best looking and most expensive rifles but we are not friends. I currently have about 10 flint guns and have had several others but this is the only L&R classic lock I have owned.

 

[Kansas Kid]

I would say the frizzen spring is plenty stout but would think the softer it is maybe the worse it would bounce. Thinking of maybe gluing shims on the frizzen spring so the frizzen doesn’t travel as far. Maybe order a new spring and frizzen to experiment with.

 

[Norman Brooks]

I would say the frizzen spring is plenty stout but would think the softer it is maybe the worse it would bounce. Thinking of maybe gluing shims on the frizzen spring so the frizzen doesn’t travel as far. Maybe order a new spring and frizzen to experiment with.

I would say that the shims on the frizzen spring would be a start. It does look like the frizzen is opening a long ways. Just my opinion...

 

[Kansas Kid]

Studying this further the problem is when the frizzen stop hits the spring it overpowers the frizzen spring and arcs past the resting position. This happens by just flipping the frizzen open with my thumb so I imagine it’s more intense when the cock strikes it. So is it a problem having a roller frizzen on a lock that did not originally have one?

 

[Eric Krewson]

Is the roller still touching the spring when the frizzen is wide open? Sure looks like some excess travel but can't tell from the side view.

You posted while I was posting, I think you have the wrong frizzen on that lock.

 

[Kansas Kid]

I would say that the shims on the frizzen spring would be a start. It does look like the frizzen is opening a long ways. Just my opinion...

I think so also. Maybe heat and bend the frizzen stop.

 

[Kansas Kid]

It’s the L&R classic so it’s different than regular Siler locks. Rain proof pan, bearing surfaces on the guts, roller frizzen etc.

Eric, yes once it’s at rest it has a firm 3 point resting position.

 

[Norman Brooks]

This is an image take from TOTW. Looks to be open the same as yours. I never did have good luck with L&R locks. Have you polished the cam area on the frizzen?

 

[Kansas Kid]

Yes the lock was new when I got it and besides some slicking up it is un altered. I have lots of good L&R locks but I think the roller frizzen is not a good idea on this lock due to bad geometry. I have some regular left hand silers so gonna look at how the frizzens compare tomorrow.

 

[EC121]

Find where the roller stops at the end of its travel and grind a groove across the spring to catch the roller.

 

[Norman Brooks]

You could call L&R and find out if there was any changes in the lock you have and the one's produced today. As far as the Colerain A weight goes, good luck. I have one that shoots basket ball size groups at 50 yards.

 

[Kansas Kid]

Thanks Norm. I will contact them. I should feel lucky that my colerain A weight shoots a little over grapefruit size at 50 yards

 

[Norman Brooks]

Thanks Norm. I will contact them. I should feel lucky that my colerain A weight shoots a little over grapefruit size at 50 yards

L&R should be able to help you out. The .40 cal. A weights are springy. The only thing I can think of is under lugs not slotted enough or the wood in front or back of the under lugs in hitting an under lug.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have a .40 with an A weight Burton barrel on it, it shoots cloverleaf at 50 yards.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have had trouble with L&R locks and even more trouble getting one fixed by them, the last one I sent back came back much worse than it was when I sent it off, it appears they have "0" quality control in their facility. I ended up fixing the lock and their mistakes myself rather than sending it back again.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Buzzes and vibrates the whole rifle you say! Sound like a; the barrel has gaps between barrel and stock and b; the lock is pressed hard onto the barrel.
If it were mine those would have to be changed.
I would not care about the lock other than if it was failing to fire.

 

[Kansas Kid]

It’s definitely a problem with the lock. The rifle is very well built with no gaps. I spent most of the morning comparing two other left hand large silers I have. One is a Chambers and not real sure on the other. I believe the whole problem is the roller frizzen and the angle of the toe/fulcrum. About an 1/8 shim between frizzen stop and spring seems to make it dead quiet . I will glue a shim on later and see if that still holds true, instead of just holding it there.

I have a Rice B weight 50 cal barrel that shoots wonderful. Technically I think it’s lighter than an A weight 40.

 

[Norman Brooks]

I have a Rice B weight 50 cal barrel that shoots wonderful. Technically I think it’s lighter than an A weight 40.

Yes the A weight has about .030 to .045 more wall thickness in the waist then the B weight Rice you have. The A weight just seem to be more springy for some reason. If you figure out the accuracy for it please post it. I even tried glass bedding about 6" of the breech end and that made it shoot 12" lower at 50 yards with no grouping.
Thanks,
Norm