Boxlock? Got a good date?

[gof]

Q:
When do we see the Boxlock come into being in the gun development timeline?

Kind of a two part question as I would imagine there is the "date" it was first developed, and then the time span that it saw widespread use.

I have found "1730"[url] http://armscollectors.com/gunhistorydates.htm[/url]

Warren Moore in "Weapons of the American Revolution" gives 1750s

and I found a reference HERE to a possible pair of turn off dueling pistols "circa" 1710.

Anyone else care to take a stab?

Greg

 

[Mike Brooks]

I recall seeing an english pair from about 1710 or so, they probably date to about 1680 more or less.

 

[Henry]

Box lock duelling pistols ????

Not as funny as box locks target pistols but still interesting
to say the least .

Box lock as well as other Queen Ann and screwed barrels
pistols are an interesting subject . Their origin is linked
to the imigration to England of the French protestants
so there are bound to be a few myths and legends around
their origin .

 

[Toomuch_36]

I picked up a small flint box lock pistol several years back with a 2 1/2" barrel about .40 bore that was proported to be of about 1740s by a reputable collector.

Toomuch
............
Shoot Flint

 

[WRussell]

The Boughton House examples by Barbar might be contested - but what's new. They don't look anything like what we now call "boxlocks". One pair seems to be firmly in the Queen Anne category, with a lock plate and a trigger plate made in one piece with the breech, while the other pair we can only go from the description, which states that there is a true boxlock mechanism hidden inside the stock. At least it clearly has the cock and frizzen mounted in the middle, but there are boxlocks (with metal all the way around the "action") which have the cocks mounted on the outside like the Queen Anne, so you can sight down the barrel.

I have only read of boxlocks from 1730 or so. I'd love to see earlier examples. "Boxlock" defined as four sided box, integral breech (making a fifth "side" to the box). Wood only coming the back of the box, not continuing to the breech on the left side and the top, like a Queen Anne.

C'mon Mike! Stir up those gray cells and post a source for that info :thumbsup:

 

[gof]

Black John Posted this at another site...

The Problem is that the drawing is attributed to Richard Wilson 1660-1680, but John's web search pulls Richard Wilson, as 1703 b. - 1766 d.



Any other ideas?


The underlying question is would a boxlock pistol be PC for 1670-1720ish Golden Age of Piracy?

 

[benvenuto]

The underlying question is would a boxlock pistol be PC for 1670-1720ish Golden Age of Piracy?

In the right style, yes, just barely...
There is a sidehammer turn-off pistol/light rifle kit that the Rifle Shoppe offers based on a gun by John Harmon that might fit your period and I'm sure Blackley has some similar parts

 

[Mike Brooks]

My resource material only goes back to 1740, and the "classic" boxlock was in use at that time. The Wilson boxlocks pictured above are ca. 1780 according to my resources. They're silver mounted and have barrels 2" long.
There is always confusion dating british guns by the makers name as gunmaking was a family business that spanned several generations, making it difficult to know just exactly which "R" Wilson made the pistols.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I recall seeing an english pair from about 1710 or so, they probably date to about 1680 more or less.

I was wrong..... :shocked2: Unbelievable but true. :shake:
These probably don't go before 1700 at the very earlyest.

 

[WRussell]

I was wrong.....

Gasp! :shocked2:

The appearance of the boxlock design seems to be shrouded in mystery. I'm talking about the tumbler integral with the cock, enclosed inside two side plates, the trigger plate and a top plate, with the breech integral.

Burgoyne ("The Queen Anne Pistol") had access to a lot of info, and he is vague about it. I've never seen anything definitive, like 'here is the oldest known boxlock'.

Fun stuff. I hope somebody comes up with some more info.

 

[WRussell]

The underlying question is would a boxlock pistol be PC for 1670-1720ish Golden Age of Piracy?

So to answer your question - go with a Queen Anne! Much cooler. Blackley and Rifleshoppe have kits.

A pirate with a Queen Anne obviously nailed some wealthy dude. :grin:

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've got pictures of a BARBAR boxlock dated 1740. Kind of funky compared to the later 1770's period boxlocks. BARBAR was a french Heugonot, makes me want to assume box locks were being made in france when he learned the trade there. That would put them somewhat earlier than the 1740 date anyway..... :hmm:

 

[WRussell]

Sounds like the pair at Boughton House might be 'boxlocks', but I wonder if it isn't just the trigger plate and a top strap made integral with the breech, with the stock covering open sides. In any case, it would seem to have the cock integral with the tumbler. Could it be the earliest knowen example?