Boy did I get lucky or what

[mjpchief]

Latched onto this today. Basically had it given to me. Never had one and probably will wish I didn’t have this one. Of course it was loaded in all 4 barrels. I had to grease gun the loads out. Luckily not that much of a mess. I will take it out and shoot it tomorrow. .36 caliber and will load it light. I don’t figure on it grouping very well at all. I know you’re all getting ready to start making offers but I think I’ll keep this little jewel. Lol.

 

[Stantheman86]

Is that one of those kits they used to advertise in Shotgun News ?

 

[Eutycus]

I guess it's the angle of the camera and it makes it difficult to guess at the bartel length. How long are they?

 

[hawkeye2]

They were available as finished guns or kits. They dumped a lot on the market in the early 80's and you could buy the kits at K-Mart for just over $20. 3" barrel, possibly 3.25" from the brass shield. I bought a slightly used one for$35 about '77 or '78. The 70's production by Classic Arms were actually fairly decent pieces.

 

[mjpchief]

Barrels are 3”. Looked it up in DGW catalogs do they are priced at $165. The barrels have to be rotated by hand between shots. You would need to be careful how you grip the barrels to rotate. If this thing would fire on rotation you could loose some parts. There are no markings on the gun other than a serial number.

 

[rafterob]

Yes, that is the classics arms model. That one looks like it was finished quite well. Deer Creek still has those available. The better one is the Ethan Allen by Hoppe's. It is copied from originals.

 

[Zonie]

Latched onto this today. Basically had it given to me. Never had one and probably will wish I didn’t have this one. Of course it was loaded in all 4 barrels. I had to grease gun the loads out. Luckily not that much of a mess. I will take it out and shoot it tomorrow. .36 caliber and will load it light. I don’t figure on it grouping very well at all. I know you’re all getting ready to start making offers but I think I’ll keep this little jewel. Lol.

If you shoot it, be prepared for more than one barrel to fire.
Because the nipples are partly shrouded by the receiver, the flames from the cap and exploding powder will travel around the rear of the barrel to the other capped nipples. If the caps on these nipples are not tight, the flame can enter thru the nipple hole into the next barrel where it will ignite the powder. Multiple discharges are referred to as "chain fireing".

This was very common for the pepperboxes back in the days when they were popular. Mark Twain's story about pepperboxes humorously describes the scene when this happened. (Story below)

Colt's first pistol also had a shroud that covered the caps on his revolver. The result? It also chain fired like crazy.
His solution was to remove the shroud and machine pockets for the caps so there was solid material surrounding the nipples. He patented this idea and sued anyone who tried to incorporate any type of "dam" between the nipples of their guns.

From Mark Twain's Roughing It

"George Bemis . . . wore in his belt an old original "Allen" revolver, such as irreverent people called a "pepper-box." Simply drawing the trigger back, cocked and fired the pistol. As the trigger came back, the hammer would begin to rise and the barrel to turn over, and presently down would drop the hammer, and away would speed the ball. To aim along the turning barrel and hit the thing aimed at was a feat which was probably never done with an "Allen" in the world. But George's was a reliable weapon, nevertheless, because, as one of the stage-drivers afterward said, "If she didn't get what she went after, she would fetch something else." And so she did. She went after a deuce of spades nailed against a tree, once, and fetched a mule standing about thirty yards to the left of it. Bemis did not want the mule; but the owner came out with a double-barreled shotgun and persuaded him to buy it, anyhow. It was a cheerful weapon--the "Allen." Sometimes all its six barrels would go off at once, and then there was no safe place in all the region round about, but behind it. "

 

[mjpchief]

If you shoot it, be prepared for more than one barrel to fire.
Because the nipples are partly shrouded by the receiver, the flames from the cap and exploding powder will travel around the rear of the barrel to the other capped nipples. If the caps on these nipples are not tight, the flame can enter thru the nipple hole into the next barrel where it will ignite the powder. Multiple discharges are referred to as "chain fireing".

This was very common for the pepperboxes back in the days when they were popular. Mark Twain's story about pepperboxes humorously describes the scene when this happened. (Story below)

Colt's first pistol also had a shroud that covered the caps on his revolver. The result? It also chain fired like crazy.
His solution was to remove the shroud and machine pockets for the caps so there was solid material surrounding the nipples. He patented this idea and sued anyone who tried to incorporate any type of "dam" between the nipples of their guns.

From Mark Twain's Roughing It

"George Bemis . . . wore in his belt an old original "Allen" revolver, such as irreverent people called a "pepper-box." Simply drawing the trigger back, cocked and fired the pistol. As the trigger came back, the hammer would begin to rise and the barrel to turn over, and presently down would drop the hammer, and away would speed the ball. To aim along the turning barrel and hit the thing aimed at was a feat which was probably never done with an "Allen" in the world. But George's was a reliable weapon, nevertheless, because, as one of the stage-drivers afterward said, "If she didn't get what she went after, she would fetch something else." And so she did. She went after a deuce of spades nailed against a tree, once, and fetched a mule standing about thirty yards to the left of it. Bemis did not want the mule; but the owner came out with a double-barreled shotgun and persuaded him to buy it, anyhow. It was a cheerful weapon--the "Allen." Sometimes all its six barrels would go off at once, and then there was no safe place in all the region round about, but behind it. "

I was wondering about a chain fire with this thing. At least there is nothing in front of the chambers to splatter the lead. May just load 2 chambers across from each other.

 

[Bad Karma]

I was wondering about a chain fire with this thing. At least there is nothing in front of the chambers to splatter the lead. May just load 2 chambers across from each other.

I wouldn’t work about a chain fire assuming well fitting caps. I would double check the location of any mules in the area...

 

[toot]

I have one that functions, but for the life of me it will not bust a cap. I am puzzled. it has a trigger pull of 35 LBS. and comes down with a tremendous force, no cap busting. there is no minimal clearance between the hammer & cap. any suggestions?

 

[nkbj]

With that grip will you get a bit of muzzle climb on full auto?

 

[1950DAVE]

there is no minimal clearance between the hammer & cap. any suggestions?

Do you mean hammer does not contact the cap?
Dave

 

[Grenadier1758]

Anything in the hammer cup to soften the strike force?

 

[mjpchief]

No mules around here Woodnbow but I’ve been told there’s one *******.

 

[Roundball2319]

LOOKS FUN

 

[Bad Karma]

No mules around here Woodnbow but I’ve been told there’s one *******.

Huh! We have at least one of those around here too... I’ve never seen it but overheard others talking about it.

 

[toot]

Do you mean hammer does not contact the cap?
Dave

it makes contact, but it will not bust a cap. I haven backed the nipple out to see if that would help, no. it seems to be making contact with cap & nocks the priming compound out into the nipple?

 

[1950DAVE]

Check length of nipple cone and length of nipple. Nipple may be bottoming on shoulder preventing good contact with face of nipple when hammer comes down. I have had that problem.
Dave

 

[Zonie]

Check length of nipple cone and length of nipple. Nipple may be bottoming on shoulder preventing good contact with face of nipple when hammer comes down. I have had that problem.
Dave

That's possible.
I just checked the height of the top of the cone above the top face of the nipple that came on my Classic Arms Pepperbox. It is standing .155" proud.

A check of some of the dimensions of modern percussion caps shows a #11 Remington with the priming compound starting at .144 above the open end of the cap.
It's possible that the .011 compression isn't enough to cause the fulminate to ignite.

The same source shows some CCI and RWS caps which have their fulminate closer to the open end of the cap. Maybe a different brand of cap's would help?

If you want to see the PDF file that gives a lot of information about percussion caps, follow this link

http://guntoters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Percussion-Caps-and-Nipples2.pdf
When I opened it, I could use a right mouse click to open a window that allowed me to copy the file into my computer so I copied it into my BLACKPOWDER folder.

 

[Flinty Scot]

I have on that functions, but for the life of me it will not bust a ap. I am puzzled. it has a trigger pull of 35 LBS. and comes down with a tremendous force, no cap busting. there is no minimal clearance between the hammer & cap. any suggestions?

I bought one of those a while back. Same problem. Tried everything I could think of (at the time) including filing clearance (kit gun- no lit) & trying stronger springs. Put it aside & gave up;- it was only $15 at a yard sale.
Recently, I found a schematic. I saw that mine lacked a "T" shaped piece in the spring, riding on the hammer/tumbler. Haven't been back to the project, so can't say if it fixes the problem, but does yours have one?