Boy Scouts and flintlocks

[Norinco]

Back then where was the blackpowder shooting? When I went there were two I believe. The one I went to was a Miranda Camp, which is the layover point for Mt Baldy (loved it). Miranda Camp is set up to resemble a French outpost. They even had their own French-Canadian guy and his son. There was tomahawk throwing and blackpowder rifle for the scouts. They let us bring our own targets to shoot. When we were downrange, I took the opportunity to harvest some lead.

Over at Harlan they had shotgun shooting. At both shotgun and blackpowder, they said there was a shortage of supplies. Shotgun had no 209 primers and blackpowder was running low on powder. I wonder if there was a problem procuring it or if the logistics just weren't good for that.

The Tooth of Time was the last thing we did. However, the trail on the way back was zigzagging and switchbacking. For some reason there was no direct trail to base camp.

 

[silverfox]

For the last 3 years 3 or 4 of our blackpowder shooters have been hosts at a boyscout crafts jamboree and have had anywhere between 2oo to 375 scouts this last year. We shoot Hawken type rifles with Blackpowder. Black because it is cheaper and better very few missfires. We stay busy between 9A and 4P and have to eat in shifts to keep up with the demand. Great fun and will do this as long as we are invited back. So far our only restrictions are NO Cub scout can shoot even if with their parents. Also only bullseye targets. Everyone at the camp is allowed to shoot and most do with the exception of the cubs. Hope to get that changed if they are with parents but BSA rules are followed if known. Have had quite a few state that they will be back next year as they will be Boyscouts then.
Always a lot of fun and a great group of kids to work with.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Fox,

Nice story!

We were able to do the Cubs since I worked it out with the Scout Executive of our Council prior to setting-up for the day. We used .50 cal percussion Lyman Trade rifles. We had pre-measured 25 grain charges in a separate cigar box for the Cubs and their Moms to try. When a Cub was shooting, we held onto the butt of the rifle and sort of lined-up the shot from behind the Cub, but they got to put their head on the stock and snap the trigger cause we were using only a 25 grain pistol load in the rifle. So the thing belched some smoke, and the .490 ball hit the Shoot-N-C target that I set up for them to hit about 15 yards away (or was is 50 feet?). BIG SMILES was the rule of the day!

We used real black as well! Myself and my Eagle Scout son and another Eagle Scout from my son's Patrol (both 18 years old) did the event. We ate in shifts too, since it made more sense than to have to lock everything up so we could all leave the range to go eat lunch.

I can't wait to do it again!

Dave

 

[Norinco]

Barely having enough time to eat is a common thing when you teach scouts to shoot. At camp the shooting sports staff does not get to eat lunch with the rest of us. They have to man troop shoot. The eat cold cuts for lunch every day of the week while the rest of the staff eats hot lunch. They don't get siesta either.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Barely having enough time to eat is a common thing when you teach scouts to shoot. At camp the shooting sports staff does not get to eat lunch with the rest of us. They have to man troop shoot. The eat cold cuts for lunch every day of the week while the rest of the staff eats hot lunch. They don't get siesta either.

I know exactly what you're talking about! Between scheduled Troop Shoots, the Scoutmaster .22 Competition, helping a Scout with a little extra shotgun time, etc., all this is done during "Siesta", in addition to emergency maintainece/cleaning/minor repairs to equipment and firearms :shocked2: . I have participated in all aspects of running the Scout Range at Summer Camp . It takes a lot to keep a safe range going, and you can't waste the time it takes to lock everything up in gun safes or storage compartments (BSA Rules, but then I didn't have to tell YOU that!) so you can leave the range unattended to go eat.

As an adult Scout Leader (Charter Organization Representative) with my Son's Troop, I would "arrange" to have an extra case or two of shotgun ammo, which us adult leaders would play around with during one of the Siestas, under the watchful eyes of the RO and 1-2 Counselors or CIT's. What ever we didn't shoot never made it back home...it was a "tip" along with a pound of Pyrodex and some cleaning supplies (and I gave the CIT's $10.00 each for missing their lunch & Siesta). Everybody had a good safe time and we got to shoot some black powder during the "private" session as well. If any other Scouters showed-up to see what all of the noise was about, they were of course invited to stay and shoot with us, which some did, to their delight! :thumbsup:

I really miss Summer Camp and the Range--don't miss 93 degree heat at 11:30 pm though! :shocked2:

Dave

 

[curator]

Here in SW Florida we have two BSA camps and shooting sports program that includes muzzle loading rifle, and shotgun for the regular Boy Scouts, B-B guns range for the Cub Scouts, and Handgun/muzzle loading handgun shooting allowed for Venture Crews and Explorer-aged Scouts (14 and older) We don't let them shoot flintlocks, but may have an adult demonstrate them. Our Shooting Sports Corps bought 6 T/C percussion New Englander .50 rifles and two 12 gauge New Englander shotguns about 25 years ago. They are still going strong with more than 20 "certified" NRA muzzle loading rifle instructors running the program and seeing to them being properly maintained. Two weeks ago I hosted a JrROTC group that wanted to shoot "Civil War" muskets. Several of our instructors brought their replica muskets and cap & ball revolvers. They aren't allowed to shoot "real guns" in JrROTC so you know they had a blast (figuratively as well as literally) Scouts are our future!

 

[Norinco]

Yeah, the scouts loved shooting our personal firearms too. The range at Bowman was littered with 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, .223 Rem, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, and 8mm Mauser casings. Of course, that was before I picked them back up for reloading and scrap metal. We did have one scoutmaster bring a Barret .50 BMG rifle and was nice enough to let us shoot it for free ("That's the fastest way to send $5 downrange into the backstop").

I think my council has a 35gr to .50cal powder limit for scouts. That was what I heard from the SS director back in 08. In 09, the new director was not aware of any restrictions, so we were having the scouts shooting 50gr. We ocassionally loaded 100gr or 120gr and were supposed to warn the archery guys before making that much noise.

As far as maintenance, the camp guns are only cleaned once a week. Personal guns were cleaned every day. For our own traditional blackpowder guns we would take the barrels back to our staff tents to clean.

At the end of the summer there was a surplus of 3lb of Pyrodex, 2k 20ga shotgun shells, and probably 10k .22LR rounds. We made the shotgun shells disappear but I think the Pyrodex and .22LR were inadvertently left in the shed.

 

[SRV]

I forgot to add to my origional post that I had a LOT of pratice knapping flints. A few weeks ago a asked the question on this forum and received several helpful tips. Thanks again!

 

[daoliver924]

I too volunteer at a week long summer camp in Vermont where we teach Indian Lore and MM skills and am the District Commissioner (guy who has to have the answers) for Flintlock district in MA.
I bring my Flintlocks to camp and demonstrate and let those over 18 shoot if they wish. I bring caplocks for those under 18.

Although, I don't agree with it the rule is NO Flintlocks. The reason, the flash near your face.
The biggest problem you could have (whether at a BSA camp or just an event with the Scouts) is that if you break the rules and something happens, the BSA insurance will not cover you and the BSA will not protect you. That means it is you who will be sued if a boy gets a BP tatoo.

Dave

 

[paulvallandigham]

I take a couple of pairs of safety glasses purchased at my local hardware store, for the shooters to use, whether they are wearing their own glasses or not. They don't cost a lot, and easily fit OVER regular classes. One size fits all. Scouts are just as likely to get an injury to their face or forearms and hands shooting a percussion lock as they are shooting a flintlock. The only extra caution needed when they shoot a flintlock is to make sure NO one is standing to the side of the lock and TH. And, I mean within 6 feet of the gun. Often, that means waiting until a shooter on the right ( or left if its a LHed flintlock) has fired and stepped back from the line, or stepped away from the shooting bench. :thumbsup:

If other shooters are firing cap and ball guns, and there are multiple firing points, I move the RH flintlocks to the right end of the firing line, so that we don't have to interrupt the rest of the shooters. Left-handed shooters with my LHed gun go to the far left of the firing line. :hatsoff:

 

[chazmo]

The most recent 'Guide to Safe Scouting" only references "muzzle loaders" and does not specify percussion only! Link

So... At our upcoming shooting camp-out (I am the Scoutmaster for a local troop) the boys will finally be able to do what they have been clamoring to do for years--actually shoot a flintlock instead of watching me demonstrate it! :grin:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Wish I could volunteer to help you for a week! Sounds like I'm not the only one who likes to bring some extra stuff to shoot! :thumbsup:

 

[Norinco]

The most recent 'Guide to Safe Scouting" only references "muzzle loaders" and does not specify percussion only! Link

So... At our upcoming shooting camp-out (I am the Scoutmaster for a local troop) the boys will finally be able to do what they have been clamoring to do for years--actually shoot a flintlock instead of watching me demonstrate it! :grin:

That's good. However, I think the merit badge book still says caplocks only. But nothing says that you can't have them shoot flintlocks for fun and have them qualify with .22's.

 

[curator]

Flint locks are specifically mentioned in the "health & safety" guidelines for the operation of BSA shooting sports area. Personally, I think this is a bit "over cautious," since cap locks can spit bits of brass too. Before you go ahead on your own, why not check with the Council Executive? He can give you the up-to-date information. Accidents at Boy Scout ranges really empower those who want to eliminate shooting from the Scouting program. Not following the rules is even worse if something happens.

 

[brewyak]

This is coming from an eagle scout of 15 years, thank you. I used to help out with my troop until it seemed that it turned from the boy scouts to the the mom and dad scouts, and the troop meetings were almost like a babysitting service

 

[daoliver924]

Exactly