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bp subsitutes
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ehepp
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Cap = yes, Flint = no, but it has been my experience that black powder works much better in all of my guns and it is just as easy if not easier to clean up.
Goex is a brand of black powder, they also make a black powder substitute similar to Pyrodex.
The only issue I have had with black powder is getting a hold of it. The only store around here that had it no longer carries it, I will have to mail order some before I run out. . . .
Norge
Goex is a brand of black powder, they also make a black powder substitute similar to Pyrodex.
The only issue I have had with black powder is getting a hold of it. The only store around here that had it no longer carries it, I will have to mail order some before I run out. . . .
Norge
Goex is a US based manufacturer of explosive powders. Their products include real and synthetic black powders for firearms, powder for commercial blasting products and powder for fireworks. They were recently purchased by Hodgdon, a manufacturer of smokeless powders and synthetic black powders (Pyrodex and Triple 7).
Their real black powder product for firearms is simply named Goex Black Powder, and the term Goex has come to be synonymous with the generic term black powder, much as we often use Kleenex for tissues or Xerox for facsimile photocopys.
Goex real black powder comes in two grades and several granulations. The standard grade is the one simply named Goex; their premium grade is named Goex Express. The granulations are, from coarse to very fine, are termed cannon, fg, ffg, fffg, and ffffg, with a cartridge formulation for rifle cartridges.
Goex also makes a synthetic black powder named Goex Pinnacle to compete with Pyrodex and other synthetics.
To sum it all up, however, when you see the term Goex used alone it means simply real black powder.
Their real black powder product for firearms is simply named Goex Black Powder, and the term Goex has come to be synonymous with the generic term black powder, much as we often use Kleenex for tissues or Xerox for facsimile photocopys.
Goex real black powder comes in two grades and several granulations. The standard grade is the one simply named Goex; their premium grade is named Goex Express. The granulations are, from coarse to very fine, are termed cannon, fg, ffg, fffg, and ffffg, with a cartridge formulation for rifle cartridges.
Goex also makes a synthetic black powder named Goex Pinnacle to compete with Pyrodex and other synthetics.
To sum it all up, however, when you see the term Goex used alone it means simply real black powder.
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... what Norge said... by the way, real black powder is usually much less expensive that the synthetic stuff. considering the current political climate [insert tirade here] you might want to get a bunch while you still can.
make good smoke!
make good smoke!
rafterob
62 Cal.
The retail price for GOEX black powder is usually higher than the substitutes due to regulations imposed upon the retailer. If you can manage an online quantity purchase the price drops dramatically.
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Little Wattsy
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powdertoyou said:
Here in Oregon "Real" BP isnt offerd. I use Pyrodex in my caplocks and have NO problems at all. Easy cleanup. Good ignition.
Cost is 11.50 a pound at Bi-Mart. That is hard to beat anywhere.
I'd try "real" BP if it was easier to do so but honestly cant see MUCH potential differance in preformance.
paulvallandigham
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Your experience with the shooting of black powder vs. pyrodex, or any other substitute powder is much different than the experiences of other shooters. For different temperatures, relative humidities, and changes in weather, Black Powder is far better a performer than any of the subs, including Pyrodex, in both Flintlocks, and caplocks. That is without considering issues of cost, cleaning, corrosion, etc.
As for obtaining Black Powder, there are Goex Distributors for all the States, and a call to the 800 number for Goex, or the nearest distributor will get you directed to your closest retail source, if you insist on buying powder one can at a time. If you have been reading this forum for any length of time, you will have read countless thread indicating how to obtain BP from sources through shipping, and the prices you pay when you buy in bulk. It is wise to find friends to buy powder with, so you can order the powder at case prices. Its saves on the Haz Mat fee that is assessed against every shipment, regardless of the amount of powder shipped or ordered. The same suppliers often also supply percussion caps, and they can be included in your powder order for the same Haz Mat fee.
Go to the Links page on this forum( at the top of the index page, under "Member Resource) and find suppliers. McKeal has been posting a chart on current Powder Prices here for the last couple of months. There is a dealer in Lousiana called Jack's Powder Keg that currently sells Black Powder at the lowest price- case price amounts to about $10.20 per pound.
The only reason you can buy some of the substitute powders on the market from the Discount houses, is that the manufacturer is dumping the product in high volume sales to these stores just to move a product that informed MLing shooters don't want. Use it, if its all you have. And buy those bargains while they last.
This time of year, the prices are dropped so they can use their warehouse space to store something that will sell for the late spring and summer sales. They want to move that powder and get their money( and a smaller profit) out of it as fast as possible.
As for obtaining Black Powder, there are Goex Distributors for all the States, and a call to the 800 number for Goex, or the nearest distributor will get you directed to your closest retail source, if you insist on buying powder one can at a time. If you have been reading this forum for any length of time, you will have read countless thread indicating how to obtain BP from sources through shipping, and the prices you pay when you buy in bulk. It is wise to find friends to buy powder with, so you can order the powder at case prices. Its saves on the Haz Mat fee that is assessed against every shipment, regardless of the amount of powder shipped or ordered. The same suppliers often also supply percussion caps, and they can be included in your powder order for the same Haz Mat fee.
Go to the Links page on this forum( at the top of the index page, under "Member Resource) and find suppliers. McKeal has been posting a chart on current Powder Prices here for the last couple of months. There is a dealer in Lousiana called Jack's Powder Keg that currently sells Black Powder at the lowest price- case price amounts to about $10.20 per pound.
The only reason you can buy some of the substitute powders on the market from the Discount houses, is that the manufacturer is dumping the product in high volume sales to these stores just to move a product that informed MLing shooters don't want. Use it, if its all you have. And buy those bargains while they last.
This time of year, the prices are dropped so they can use their warehouse space to store something that will sell for the late spring and summer sales. They want to move that powder and get their money( and a smaller profit) out of it as fast as possible.
95% of the muzzleloader shooters in this country use subs only. They don't post on this forum though because they don't shoot traditional muzzleloaders.
We have to realize we are a very tiny minority when it comes to consumption. The newest subs require only Hoppes #9 for clean-up and are totally non-corrosive. They won't work in traditional muzzleloaders at all.
We have to realize we are a very tiny minority when it comes to consumption. The newest subs require only Hoppes #9 for clean-up and are totally non-corrosive. They won't work in traditional muzzleloaders at all.
You can use substitutes, but they generally don't work as well. I used Pyrodex for a few years thinking that because it was "new and improved" it had to be better than black powder. It isn't. It works in a pinch but usually requires a more powerful percussion cap to set it off reliably.
Like the others have said, you can get black powder cheaper than the substitutes if you mail order it. If you just want a can or two and can't find a local store that handles it, try your local gun shows. Assuming that the promoter hasn't banned it (some do, most don't), you can probably find it there. Same with caps.
Like the others have said, you can get black powder cheaper than the substitutes if you mail order it. If you just want a can or two and can't find a local store that handles it, try your local gun shows. Assuming that the promoter hasn't banned it (some do, most don't), you can probably find it there. Same with caps.
Rat Trapper
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In all of my Tc Hawken rifles triple seven 2F works extremly well. I did install hot shot nipples and use CCI #11 mag caps. Goex black powder also works well, but is getting hard to find around here.
paulvallandigham
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95% of the muzzleloader shooters in this country today began shooting the unmentionables within the past 5 years. They are cheaters, and their only interest in MLing is being able to take advantage of a few more days to shoot deer. They have not shot BLack Powder because it disappeared from store shelves at about the time those zip guns came on the scene, due to ridiculous government regulations placed on Black powder by Homeland Security laws. The fact that all of those folks use subs is an accident of marketing and time of gun laws, and not some kind of public opinion survey of knowledgeable shooters as to what propellant is the best, in any gun.
And I almost can guarantee your " market sample" has never fired a flintlock! Every time I am at a range with these guys and they get an opportunity to see my gun, and shoot it, they want to know more about traditional mlers, where to get them,
where to get components, etc., where is the nearest BP club, when do they hold shoots, what does it take to join, ad nauseum. The guns and gear sell themselves.
I HAVE NEVER seen anyone react the same way to any of the zip guns. :hmm: :thumbsup:
And I almost can guarantee your " market sample" has never fired a flintlock! Every time I am at a range with these guys and they get an opportunity to see my gun, and shoot it, they want to know more about traditional mlers, where to get them,
where to get components, etc., where is the nearest BP club, when do they hold shoots, what does it take to join, ad nauseum. The guns and gear sell themselves.
I HAVE NEVER seen anyone react the same way to any of the zip guns. :hmm: :thumbsup:
smallmouth
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I have a fairly local source of BP but one important point not made by anyone yet is the sweet, sweet smell of black powder when it burns! A very long time muzzle loading guy by the name of Dixon (also author) would tell you it really is the (correct)powder for the muzzle loader esp. the flint ignition gun along with the patched round ball.
Burning BP is roses to our noses.
Sirjohn
Burning BP is roses to our noses.
Sirjohn
While I enjoy traditional muzzleloaders as much as anyone, and have been shooting and building them since the 1970s.......
I feel your points are moot.
People use subs because they are cheap, work fine, and they don't want to risk using balckpowder in their sub-MOA rifles because it's very corrosive.
There are many avid and knowledgeable smokepolers who shoot every weekend and who have no interest in traditional stuff.
They are our friends. We should embrace them, and not dismiss them as novices.
I feel your points are moot.
People use subs because they are cheap, work fine, and they don't want to risk using balckpowder in their sub-MOA rifles because it's very corrosive.
There are many avid and knowledgeable smokepolers who shoot every weekend and who have no interest in traditional stuff.
They are our friends. We should embrace them, and not dismiss them as novices.
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:hmm: well powder2u....all I can say is the onliest complaint I ever hear about real Bp is "it's hard to get" and with substitutes, I hear complaints, an raves...so,my choice is real BP. I can get it, NEVER had a problem with it,and it works great...but...that's jus my :2 .. :thumbsup:
