BP Substitute Questions

[Robert McPhee]

Good advice: Shoot what works for you (and if its free. you've got to give it a try.) Real black is impossible to buy locally. I highly recommend Graf & Sons (Grafs.com) as a source for all powders, both black and smokeless. They have no minimum order size, charge $8.95 shipping for any size order and charge a hazmat fee of $10. They carry caps, as well, at good prices.

 

[Eddie2002]

Grafs has been my go to for powder and caps. Placed an order last year for 6 lbs of Goex and a box of 1000 #11 caps. The local gun store sells the same CCI caps at $12.95 per tin of 100 while Graf's had them for $49.95 per thousand, that and the cheaper prices on BP made the order well worth it. This last haul included the 8 jugs of pyrodex and about six mixed cans of BP so I'm good for a long time. Even have a few pounds of home made BP on the shelf which works just fine. Going to run out of lead before powder

 

[Necrodude]

No shops around me have blackpowder for sale, only pyrodex. I'll have to check outside Grafs next time I need supplies.

 

[Mike_AK]

I'm glad the purists are around to keep the history alive, but don't let them scare you off of Pyrodex. It works just fine. I did change over to musket caps on my TC Hawken rifles for better ignition, though. They light off immediately now. That is the only real downside to Pyrodex I have experienced. It can be a bit more difficult to ignite than blackpowder, but in a way that is a good thing.

 

[Necrodude]

I'm glad the purists are around to keep the history alive, but don't let them scare you off of Pyrodex. It works just fine. I did change over to musket caps on my TC Hawken rifles for better ignition, though. They light off immediately now. That is the only real downside to Pyrodex I have experienced. It can be a bit more difficult to ignite than blackpowder, but in a way that is a good thing.

Pryodex works fine in percussion firearms but I've heard that it doesn't do to well in flintlock firearms. I plan on getting flintlock firearms, so that's why I would want to get some blackpowder.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yes, Pyrodex requires a higher ignition temperature than provided by the sparks from a flintlock. Even is you use a small charge of black powder to ignite the Pyrodex, you will still need black powder for the pan and the ignition charge. Lots of threads on this forum on the use of substitute powders and sources for mail order of black powder. I recommend Graf's and Sons ( https://www.grafs.com/ ) As you can only order 4 pounds of powder, hazmat and shipping charges are reasonable.

 

[SDSmlf]

I'm glad the purists are around to keep the history alive, but don't let them scare you off of Pyrodex. It works just fine. I did change over to musket caps on my TC Hawken rifles for better ignition, though. They light off immediately now. That is the only real downside to Pyrodex I have experienced. It can be a bit more difficult to ignite than blackpowder, but in a way that is a good thing.

Once you figure out how to light up Pyrodex it can be as accurate as any other propellant. A major issue I have experienced with it is after the shooting has ended. It simply does not clean up as easily as black powder. It cleans up, but takes significantly more effort than H2O, which by itself will clear black powder residue. Have seen Pyrodex residue create rust pits in stainless steel barrels and around stainless breech plugs in guns that we don’t discuss here. Residue that if left there by black powder would have been washed away by water.

 

[Carbon 6]

A major issue I have experienced with it is after the shooting has ended. It simply does not clean up as easily as black powder. It cleans up, but takes significantly more effort than H2O, which by itself will clear black powder residue. Have seen Pyrodex residue create rust pits in stainless steel barrels and around stainless breech plugs in guns that we don’t discuss here. Residue that if left there by black powder would have been washed away by water.

Yep!, that's where Dawn helps out. Water + Dawn is much better at cleaning pyrodex than just plain water. You are also right about stainless, Pyrodex contains chlorates and chlorates love to pit stainless. Kind of ironic when you think about development of modern muzzleloaders and substitute propellants. It's like they were made to destroy each other.
Nothing beats good old real black powder.

 

[Eddie2002]

I've a mix of both flinter and cap lock pistols and rifles for my front stuffers so the pyrodex isn't going to be wasted. I'm not a true purist and will shoot what ever comes my way but will stay in period when re enacting. Having a large supply of pyrodex just means more time at the local range and not worrying about using up my holy black. So far cleanup is hot water with some Palmolive dish washing soap squirted down the barrel with a patch or two till everything comes out clean. I've a brush but really don't like using it unless there is major fouling that a regular cleaning can't take care of. After that either Rem oil or for long term storage a patch down the bore soaked in motor oil. I've learned the hard way to run a patch down the bore about 3-4 days later to check for surface rust which will get hit with the brush if there.

 

[Mike_AK]

Hot water with Windex and a splash of dish soap cleans pyrodex right up. Pump it in and out of the bore through the nipple hole with a tight fitting patch, and change the water until it comes out clean. Then rinse it with plain hot water using the rod and patch. Last I put a little Ballistol in hot water and run it up and down the bore a few times then hang the barrel muzzle down and let heat and gravity get rid of the remaining water. Never had any problems with rust or pitting.

 

[Necrodude]

I'm new to black powder firearms in general but Pyrodex isn't to bad to clean up. Like other people have said, just use hot water and dish soap of some sort and it cleans pretty easily.

 

[josie wales]

I often hear people say they use substitutes because they are easier to get, or black is "hard" to get. I would crawl two miles over broken beer bottles if that was what I had to do to get real black.

I travel over 100 miles to get black and never thought of it as a problem.It is a day spent with the wife and we find a good restaurant (The Stage in NH). I consider it a fall powder and leaf peeping trip. I believe there is NO!!!!!! substitute for real black.

 

[Hawgeye]

My purchase last month of five pounds of 3f black powder required a 750 mile round trip and a cool $150.00. Price has gone up $7.00 a pound in two years. Still worth it in my opinion now that sticker shock has somewhat worn off.

 

[mechteacher]

Grafs has been my go to for powder and caps. Placed an order last year for 6 lbs of Goex and a box of 1000 #11 caps. The local gun store sells the same CCI caps at $12.95 per tin of 100 while Graf's had them for $49.95 per thousand, that and the cheaper prices on BP made the order well worth it. This last haul included the 8 jugs of pyrodex and about six mixed cans of BP so I'm good for a long time. Even have a few pounds of home made BP on the shelf which works just fine. Going to run out of lead before powder

Thank you for info on Graf&son. I had gone to another vendor for my BP. Your information will save me $35 / 5# order.

 

[Van1955]

I've used pyrodex and black powder both, no apologies . I've even mixed them together, no apologies. I buy whichever is cheaper. The only difference I've noticed is black powder smoke smells like "Real" gunpowder and pyrodex smoke smells "Chemical". I do prefer pyrodex for my revolvers, less chance of chain fire. My opinion, only important to me.

 

[Walkingeagle]

I’ve been vocal on this before, with my preference being Pyrodex for my caplocks. Absolutely no issues at all. Do not let anyone scare you.

 

[Eddie2002]

I'm happy with the trial shooting I did last weekend and didn't noticed any real difference except for having a slightly different report and smell.
Guess it was loud enough, my new neighbor who has just bought the undeveloped lot next to me and had her 12 year old kid running an ATV along the fence line teasing my dog called the sheriff on me. She also called another neighbor a redneck during a shouting match. Said I was shooting up into the air and threatening them. Got a couple video cameras on the property which showed different when played back to the sheriff. Apparently the Sargent had to carefully explain the local laws to her after which she changed her story and said that she was just very upset that I'm allowed to shoot on my own property.
Looks like I'll be working on some loads for my pistols this weekend.

 

[Louisk]

My purchase last month of five pounds of 3f black powder required a 750 mile round trip and a cool $150.00. Price has gone up $7.00 a pound in two years. Still worth it in my opinion now that sticker shock has somewhat worn off.

I made that same trip earlier this year. Will probably do it again in about a month. Even though I'm sitting on some Goex now I'm still only shooting Pyrodex in my caplocks. My only flintlock is a pistol but I hope to change that when I find the right deal....gun show tomorrow!

 

[Eddie2002]

.gun show tomorrow! Good Luck

 

[45man]

I agree BP is best but I have found Pyrodex shoots best in my .54. It is a little harder to clean but not by much. I have mentioned in another post to screen a new can of it to remove fines broken in shipment and to seat a ball with the exact same pressure each shot. Of all the fake powders it seems best. A flinter is best with BP and I have a life time supply with a few tons of pure lead.
However I need to work with BP more in my .54 because I love the stuff. Just comes down to working some loads.
I have done some business with Graf's and they are great people. But to tell the truth any mail order place has never disappointed me and if on the phone they are lovely to talk to and joke with. The secret is to be kind and make them laugh. We are blessed with good people.
Try talking to GE over an appliance, but gun people are best.