BP Substitutes & no lube on bullets

[bighole]

Hello,

I read on American Pioneer Powder's website they don't recommend using any lube on bullets. Should I load TC Maxi Balls dry with no lube? Won't they lead the barrel? I think Triple 7 works the same way with the powder absorbing moisture.
Thanks!!

From APP's website:
"No lubes are needed, and the use of lubes that come in contact with the powder will result in unburned powder, fouling and lower velocities."

 

[Russianblood]

Then I wouldn't lube your conicals. The lube on conicals is to keep the fouling moist so if APP doesn't need or want it, don't use it.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

A unlubed bullet will lead your barrel horribly.I need to read their article but it sounds like BS
It's like going down a slide butt naked with out water :rotf: lube will not affect your powder if it's not wet lube. If you are worried about be sure to clean the bottom of your bullet before you load it. I used to do that before I got into huckin' roundballs. Think about it tho. All us round ball hunters have a greased patch sitting on the powder. I have had a greasy patch loaded all through huntin' season ,than shot my gun on paper to see if there was any change on point of inpact. Nope. Lube is your friend :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree with Greenmtnboy: Use the hard lubes that have been used for years with cast bullets for rifles and handguns. They keep fouling soft in the barrel, and lubricate the barrel to reduce leading. I really don't understand why you would shoot conicals for other than wild boar, or Elk sized game animals, but that was not your question. You can always use a filler over the powder, such as a card wad, or corn meal to protect the powder from any oil infiltration. The real purpose of a filler is to protect the base of the conical projectile from being burned. You want an absolute flat, and square to the bore base of the bullet so that when it leaves the muzzle, the gases exit in equal directions around all the edges of the base of the bullet. Otherwise, you get gas cutting of the edge of the base of the bullet, and you will get a bullet fish-tailing as it flys down the range. A flat base keeps the bullet flying true and gives the best accuracy. You have to check that muzzle crown to see that it is square to the bore, or you won't get good accuracy shooting conicals. A flat base and square crown allows that transition from the barrel to air without any disturbance to the bullet.

 

[marwat06]

When I shoot conicals I just remove the lube from the bottom of the bullet. I had no problems using this method.

 

[Landngroove]

When shooting a T/C Maxi-Ball, or Maxi-Hunter, lubed, why not put a "Bore Button", a.k.a. "Wonder Wad", over the powder. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

many Wonder Wads are pre lubricated with Bore Butter or something similar.

The dry fiber pads like they use in BPCR shells might work.

 

[bighole]

Aren't they (APP) talking about having lube in the barrel from the lubed bullet that just fired and then pouring the next charge in and it coming in contact with the lube and that causing a problem?

It sounds strange APP would say not to use lube and not to elaborate on it. A dry bullet just doesn't sound good but maybe after a shot or 2 the barrel is lubed up with the residue.

 

[roundball]

Hello,

I read on American Pioneer Powder's website they don't recommend using any lube on bullets. Should I load TC Maxi Balls dry with no lube? Won't they lead the barrel? I think Triple 7 works the same way with the powder absorbing moisture.
Thanks!!

From APP's website:
"No lubes are needed, and the use of lubes that come in contact with the powder will result in unburned powder, fouling and lower velocities."

Neither Wonder Lube / Natural Lube bore butter has any negative effects on powder.

I take APP's disclaimer as just that, some sort of generic disclaimer...can't possibly apply to lubes like borebutter.

PS:
TC Maxi-Hunters already have NL1000 on them and in the rare cases where I use them, I also run them through a TC 'luber' device first which really plasters the NL1000 on them...no powder effects at all.

 

[Swampman]

I don't think we should support these faux powders. If we continue to do so, real powder will be lost to us soon enough.

 

[cayugad]

I've shot Clean Shot made by APP, APP 3f, and Pinnacle 3f with lubed conicals and even lubed patch and ball with excellent results. I would shoot a lubed conical to keep the leading out of the bore.

I did not have good luck though with APP and conicals. I think it has something to do with the burn rate. I get my best results with conicals shooting Triple Se7en 2f, Pyrodex P, or Goex 3f.

With roundball though, Pinnacle and my .58 caliber shooting roundball have a real thing going on there. They really like each other.

I will admit that 99% of the time I shoot Goex in my rifles because I shoot almost every day, and it is much more cost effective. Also I like Goex. It is a great powder.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

.. real powder will be lost to us soon enough.

In the republic of Mass here ... "real" powder is pretty much gone from us already, less those that buy in 25 pound lots. With the requirement (new?) that ANYONE who touches the BP, from source to purchaser, be fingerprinted ... I dunnoh, it's just getting tougher. Most dealers just gave up.

We're trying to get a buyer's license for our Club - that was the easy part - trying to find and make a powder bunker that complies with local and State fire codes is proving to be an impossibility.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I don't think we should support these faux powders. If we continue to do so, real powder will be lost to us soon enough.

I agree wholeheartedly.
I have had rifles with patenbreaches and I would get hang fires with RS pirodex.
Now I only shoot round balls and Goex with Greenmtnbarrels, no snail breech and never have a problem.
The only way I can get Goex here in CO is ordrer 25lbs at a time :cursing:
The reason Goex doesen't hang fire in paten breeches is that it has a smaller grain than RS,
I should say RS compaired to ffg :hatsoff:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Graf & Sons, (handles several brands of BP) four pound minimum, $20.00 Hazmat, $3.75 handling charge and free Fedex shipping to your door.

Once I tried their Graf house brand BP (same as and made by Schuetzen) at $9.95 a pound, I won't be going back to Goex. IMHO, it is a better BP.

They are linked here on the site, Forum index, muzzleloading links, powder links.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Graf & Sons, (handles several brands of BP) four pound minimum, $20.00 Hazmat, $3.75 handling charge and free Fedex shipping to your door.

Once I tried their Graf house brand BP (same as and made by Schuetzen) at $9.95 a pound, I won't be going back to Goex. IMHO, it is a better BP.

They are linked here on the site, Forum index, muzzleloading links, powder links.

Hay thanks for the info, I will do a little reserch on their powder. :hatsoff:

 

[stevelyn]

It's already lost. Due to our 'friends' at BATFEces and DOT the real stuff is impossible to get out here in Aleutian Hell.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I bet if you contact Goex on their site they can find a way to get you the real stuff.

 

[ss1]

I like these faux powders, they go well with my faux T/C HAWKINS & Hatfield. That said, It is not the faux powders that is driving out black powder, It is the goverment regulations. It may be a short time, very short time, if you don"t shoot faux power, YOU DO NOT SHOOT. IMHO

 

[ss1]

American Rifleman, 1-06,p54, presses unlubed copper jacket directly into lands & groves, just like your .30-06.

 

[noahmercy]

I've used APP (I was given a bottle...I shoot real BP in my frontstuffers) and shooting it in my cartridge guns revealed some interesting things.

#1-it doesn't matter if your bullet lube is petroleum-based. The fouling will not harden due to the use of alox or hard lubes.

#2-very little lube is required for the gun to keep functioning. APP creates moisture during its burning and the fouling is reminiscent of soot from a candle or match. It is very satiny and actually helps to slick things up.

#3-it is wimpy powder. Pressures and velocities are substantially lower than those given by a comparable granulation of real black powder.

#4-the residue from the stuff is very hard on brass. It will badly and permanantly tarnish brass if left on it for any length of time.

#5-it doesn't have the wonderful aroma of brimstone you get with the real deal...it smells almost "foodlike".

#5-for the same charge of propellent, it smokes more than BP.

I would not recommend seating an unlubed conical on top of this powder for these reasons; to whit, you stand a good chance of leading the barrel or deforming the slug while loading it dry. Just do as others have suggested and thoroughly clean the base of the bullet. If you want to experiment with a wad under the bullet, use Ox-Yoke Wonder Wads. They are dry lubed, so they won't contaminate the powder or leave any of the residue APP warns against.

:thumbsup: