Any of you have any experiance shooting a long rifle with a rifled Brass Barrel, what were the the results. I had Very nice long rifle ,Allentown made by Ken Netting , 48 inch octagon to round swamped Brass barrel made by Getz, one in 66 twist that shot nicely. Sold that gun and wish I knew where it was to buy it back . Anyone seen it ? I recently ordered a 40 caliber Brass barrel from Ed Rayel for a new long rifle project from Jim Turpin and have Tim Brown working on a .75 caliber swamped Brass Barrled Jaeger. Just curious on the thoughts of those using them . Eagles
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Brass Barrels
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A good friend of mine and a member of our club who builds rifles has a brass-barrelled percussion Vincent he built in .36 or.40--says it shoots excellently. Only one I've ever seen.
just curious, but why would you want a brass barrel? I would think for longevity a steel barrel would outlast a brass barrel. maybe the brass would not corrode like a steel barrel? is the brass barrel cheaper to purchase? flinch
actually Brass is more expensive , but it does not corrode at all is VERY pretty and is supposed to be a "dead " metal like wrought iron, that is as it gets hot it does not walk the shots all over the paper. I have a Bobby Hoyt Wrought Iron Barrel and it is true with that Barrel . Also for both metals they are not supposed to vibrate as much so accuracy is very good. The Barrel Getz made for me on my old .50 caliber by Ken netting that i am trying to find had very deep round bottem rifling andn it seemed to me it would take a very long time to shoot that rifling out from the wear it had on it when I sold it . Tim Brown is making me a beatiful Brass Barrelled Jaeger now and if you go to his site and click on the Journal you will see it as it is made .
3 stinky dogs
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Middlesex village trading has a Ketland brass barrel pistole in .60 CAL I am intrested in.I think it looks classey.I thaught that the brass barrel made it a wall hanger but after reading your post I think I will plan on grabbing one up.I had no Idea that brass was a useable barrel metal.
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Who told you that the brass will not corrode? Ask any anybody that shoots BP cartridge about that. It may not corrode quite as fast, but if you let BP fired cases sit over night, you will be tossing them out by morning as many of them will be badly pitted. At least in FL humidity. Brass barrels are pretty, but they are best left to smooth bore pistols.
Brass (copper/zinc) or Bronze (copper/tin)?
Bronze makes some very fine barrels. Felix Werder, the swiss gunsmith of the late 1600's used it almost exclusively. The barrels were cast then cold-forged on a mandrell to increse strength before being bored true and finished.
Bronze makes some very fine barrels. Felix Werder, the swiss gunsmith of the late 1600's used it almost exclusively. The barrels were cast then cold-forged on a mandrell to increse strength before being bored true and finished.
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I saw a brass barreled antique halfstock percussion up for auction in a dealers catalog about 10 years ago.
3 stinky dogs
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Would engraving them weaken them enugh to be unsafe?
I don't think shallow engraving will hurt the brass barrels strength but the owners of brass or bronze barreled guns shouls avoid anything with ammonia in it.
It has been known to weaken the grain structure and cause unexpected failures.
It has been known to weaken the grain structure and cause unexpected failures.
Try this get a brass tube and a steel one , cover it with water , dont dry it , then do they same with black powder residue . See what they look like a week later. I should have said Brass is at least ten times less corrosive than steel or iron(according to automotive industry tests ) so while it may corode some it is not even in he same universe as steel or iron. I have seen a few orriginal Jaeger barrels in Brass (rifled) and the bores were in far better shape than any old ones I have seen in steel . The fact is it resists any corresion far better than a steel barrel . A test by the auto industry to see if Brass screws and parts were superior to steel and even zinc plated steel parts was conclusive , they said the brass had corrosion properties ten times that of any steel or plated steel , that although Brass tarnished it retained its qaulity to do the job far after steel gave way . Also the aformentioned less vibration and a dead metal (according to th old timers )still holds true. More Brass barreles would have been seen in earlier times if it was not so expensive .
Interesting and yes I have heard this from the Brass sites about not cleanng old Brass with Amonia , I dont use Amonia for anything , is it in any of the blask powder solvents that you know of ? Of course with a Brass Barrel you can use water with no worries . My Brass Barrels were and are engraved with no problem . My 50 Getz was proofed with a tripple charge and two patched balls , no problem.
3 stinky dogs
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Thos guy's have a blunder buss with a brass tube as well.I always thaught they looked neat but had concerns about safty.Good stuff and thanks for your info.
Brass (bronze?) barrels were common on 18th century pistols & blunderbusses. I think it's fighting an unfavorable strength to weight ratio for a long rifle barrel - unless it's a good hard bronze it might be a little too easy to bend it.
If you want to make a pistol, you can get bronze bearing stock in suitable lengths quite inexpensively, and it already has a hole down the center.
Benvenuto - do you know how common brass was versus bronze for barrels in the 1700's?
Do you know a simple test to see if an original was brass (zinc) or bronze (tin)? Drop of vinegar?
If you want to make a pistol, you can get bronze bearing stock in suitable lengths quite inexpensively, and it already has a hole down the center.
Benvenuto - do you know how common brass was versus bronze for barrels in the 1700's?
Do you know a simple test to see if an original was brass (zinc) or bronze (tin)? Drop of vinegar?
Leonredbeard
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eagles,
I have smelled Lehigh Valley cleaner/patch lube, and I think it has amonia in it. I don't know this for sure but it smelled suspiciouly like it. Other oders masked it some, I think. The answer to that question is to smell any cleaner/lube you think about buying.
God bless.
volatpluvia
I have smelled Lehigh Valley cleaner/patch lube, and I think it has amonia in it. I don't know this for sure but it smelled suspiciouly like it. Other oders masked it some, I think. The answer to that question is to smell any cleaner/lube you think about buying.
God bless.
volatpluvia
The only thing I would trust that I have seen on this is an article by Dr Arne Hoff in "Arms and Armour Annual Vol 1"
He analyses two similar barrels by Werder, and the Belgian gunsmith Selier. Werder's (cold hammered) has a wall thickness at the muzzle of 0.60mm (!!!) and Seliers 2.00mm. While Hoff calls the material "brass" in the article he states:
"Both brasses were made of a brass containing a small quantity of lead; there was a difference in the percentage of copper in the alloy...the brass of the Werder barrel had a little more tin, iron and nickle than the Selier..."
There is no mention of zinc so really hes talking about bronze. He states that the Selier barrel was cast as a plate, which was bent into a tube and then soldered (more likely brazed) shut with reinforcing pieces across the joint. The Werder was cast as a hollow tube, then cold-forgeded and machined inside and out.
Later he says aproximately 1/3 of all 14th-15th century barrels were cast from copper alloys (ie bronzes and brasses):
"it is difficult to establish how many surviving specimens are true bronze (copper and tin) and how many are made of brass(about 80% copper, 20% zinc)... but a superficial estimate based on surface colour points to an overwhelming majority of bronze... In the 16th century when brass production was increasing, the opposite seems to have become the case, and in the following centuries bronze barrels on handguns diminished almost to extinction"
he has a few other things to say, mainly that the majority of brass/bronze barrels were cast as hollow tubes, or bent from plate and soldered, but he soes quote some examples of dsmall bore pistols and long guns that might bave been drilled from a solid bar (he says the bores are almost always slightly off centre)
Anyway, hope this helps...
Bronze, BTW has excellent anti-corrosive properties. I think the alloy called Navy-G bronze is the same as the "gunmetal" the board of ordnance used to cast cannon and mortars with at the Greenwich foundary.
He analyses two similar barrels by Werder, and the Belgian gunsmith Selier. Werder's (cold hammered) has a wall thickness at the muzzle of 0.60mm (!!!) and Seliers 2.00mm. While Hoff calls the material "brass" in the article he states:
"Both brasses were made of a brass containing a small quantity of lead; there was a difference in the percentage of copper in the alloy...the brass of the Werder barrel had a little more tin, iron and nickle than the Selier..."
There is no mention of zinc so really hes talking about bronze. He states that the Selier barrel was cast as a plate, which was bent into a tube and then soldered (more likely brazed) shut with reinforcing pieces across the joint. The Werder was cast as a hollow tube, then cold-forgeded and machined inside and out.
Later he says aproximately 1/3 of all 14th-15th century barrels were cast from copper alloys (ie bronzes and brasses):
"it is difficult to establish how many surviving specimens are true bronze (copper and tin) and how many are made of brass(about 80% copper, 20% zinc)... but a superficial estimate based on surface colour points to an overwhelming majority of bronze... In the 16th century when brass production was increasing, the opposite seems to have become the case, and in the following centuries bronze barrels on handguns diminished almost to extinction"
he has a few other things to say, mainly that the majority of brass/bronze barrels were cast as hollow tubes, or bent from plate and soldered, but he soes quote some examples of dsmall bore pistols and long guns that might bave been drilled from a solid bar (he says the bores are almost always slightly off centre)
Anyway, hope this helps...
Bronze, BTW has excellent anti-corrosive properties. I think the alloy called Navy-G bronze is the same as the "gunmetal" the board of ordnance used to cast cannon and mortars with at the Greenwich foundary.
I just spoke with Barrel Maker Ed Rayel who told me he uses Nautical Brass which he said is not as yellow as the most common types of Brass so may be closer to a Bronze. He did warn however that Bronze that looked reddish in color can be brittle and he has had the best results with Nautical Brass which is what my barrel is made of. I dont know what Getz used to make my rifle that was made my Ken Netting but it shot great and showed no wear while I had it . Bill
yeah, he probably uses this
Copper Alloy No. C90300 aka "Navy G"
Copper Alloy No. C90300 aka "Navy G"
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