Brass Shine

[oldwood]

Have read many volumes of actual testimonies describing the times and happenings between 1750 to 1800. The only text describing guns of the times might only say some ones gun is "fancy" , or that the gun's lock failed at a critical moment , or the gun failed to fire. Usable details are sparse..We may never know about fancy gun care and maintenance......oldwood

 

[Cattywompuss]

My guess is that, as a couple others have hypothesized, how shiny brass and other metalwork was kept was a matter of personal preference (for civilians and their personal arms and accouterments), but, that regardless of the level of polish, things were kept clean. Bright and shiny or mellow patina should not effect function and longevity, dirt and grime causing corrosion and excess wear could effect reliability and limit the lifespan of a necessary tool.

Could be wrong. Just seems that the mental picture I get of our founding fathers' generation, through their writings and legacy, is an image of a people who took care of their tools and equipment, didn't baby them, but certainly didn't neglect them.
Hard for me to put the idea in my head into writing.

I hear ya on that. I prefer to take care of stuff so that someone else can use it when I'm worm food. On the other hand, going back to historical references to The Back Country, even my earliest ancestors in Eastern North Carolina near the Albemarle in the very early 1700s were considered "the laziest and most profligate wretches imaginable" as I think the book History of Edgecombe County North Carolina, states it.

Typical readings of accounts of The Back Country were unforgiving. It probably took Moravians and the end of the Regulator movement to calm down the mid-South back country enough for shiny rifles to get a polish

 

[FlinterNick]

That is a very definitive statement, you were there? You have some other evidence or documentation that it was this way and no other?

springfield ordenance guide, British ordinance field guides,a soldier like way by gale. In some form or another references are made to field kits and gun care expectations. The US contract system wasnt much different. Lewis and clarks expeditions documents measures taken for guncare too, on the frontiers i
Would say its almost the same in most circumstances in regards to brass. I think you first have to consider also why brass was used as it was used because it didn’t corrode like wrought iron or mild steel, so why worry too much about polishing it ? The documation is there.

 

[andy52]

The only thing on my guns that I keep polished is the silver front sights.

 

[Art Caputo]

I agree with comments speaking about personal preference, and experiences dictating how an individual uses their equipment. Human nature as been to optimize ones chances of success, and I doubt this has changed over time. Whether brass is polished or not was likely dictated by the various circumstances. Having been both a bow hunter and firearm hunter for over 50 years, unnatural reflection will immediately tip off game and draw attention. Same goes for sound and scent. While I have not read about this in the context of muzzleloader records, it is certainly been referenced in in writings pertaining to the American Indian. The “Flash of the Bow” was avoided at all costs, and the immigrants likely learned it from them, or figured it out for themselves. My muzzleloaders are maintained to the extreme, but any reflective surfaces are dulled either naturally or artificially. This was learned the hard way….Just my viewpoint.

 

[oldwood]

During the 1940's , Brasso made it into households used to clean tarnish from silverware. Once folks saw how well it worked for silverware , some tried it for inlays on fine old rifles. What a shame. The inlays shined , but the years of patina was destroyed on stock finish.

 

[FlinterNick]

During the 1940's , Brasso made it into households used to clean tarnish from silverware. Once folks saw how well it worked for silverware , some tried it for inlays on fine old rifles. What a shame. The inlays shined , but the years of patina was destroyed on stock finish.

Its the same thing as semi-chrome polish You find at jewelry supply centers.

pastes with brick dust or pumice powder have been made for a very long time with petroleum based waxes and oils, they polish up to 6 micron.

using brick dust mixed with spermwhale oil and wax was a common 18th century method of cleaning metal parts.

I use this for my pens and watches that I make, musical instrument smiths also use it for polishing bearings and thumb clamps made of brass or silver.

 

[tenngun]

springfield ordenance guide, British ordinance field guides,a soldier like way by gale. In some form or another references are made to field kits and gun care expectations. The US contract system wasnt much different. Lewis and clarks expeditions documents measures taken for guncare too, on the frontiers i
Would say its almost the same in most circumstances in regards to brass. I think you first have to consider also why brass was used as it was used because it didn’t corrode like wrought iron or mild steel, so why worry too much about polishing it ? The documation is there.

Because it looked nice?
Snappy?
We know in frontier situations cleaning was done. During the Mountain Man times Guns were issued by the company and they made sure you cared for it
Guns cost from two weeks to several months working man’s pay.
And people who didn’t keep good care of self and property were held in low regard, at a time when Mrs Grundy was a pretty powerful force.

 

[FlinterNick]

Because it looked nice?
Snappy?
We know in frontier situations cleaning was done. During the Mountain Man times Guns were issued by the company and they made sure you cared for it
Guns cost from two weeks to several months working man’s pay.
And people who didn’t keep good care of self and property were held in low regard, at a time when Mrs Grundy was a pretty powerful force.

I’d assume the materials were based on availability. Brass was available in stock form or could be easily recycled. As was copper and alloys of silver and tin, not sure about nickel, I think nickel was more common toward the late 19th century and civil war.

Brass was a wonderful material in the 18th century, it could be work hardened, repaired, soldered, peened with few shop tools And Low maintenance.

The French used Brass on their marine muskets (bands, guards, buttcaps and ornaments) to avoid salt water corrosioN and there are some surviving examples of brass fitted American Muskets For naval use.

 

[Brokennock]

springfield ordenance guide, British ordinance field guides,a soldier like way by gale. In some form or another references are made to field kits and gun care expectations. The US contract system wasnt much different. Lewis and clarks expeditions documents measures taken for guncare too, on the frontiers i
Would say its almost the same in most circumstances in regards to brass. I think you first have to consider also why brass was used as it was used because it didn’t corrode like wrought iron or mild steel, so why worry too much about polishing it ? The documation is there.

These are all military references. There is no argument that soldiers were to keep their arms, and all other gear that could possibly be polished, bright and shiny.
They have nothing to do with anyone outside the military though.
Until we find a written period account (really more than one) describing hunters, or frontier settlers, or even average citizens in a rural community, cleaning their guns,,,, that includes that they either polished or neglected to polish the exterior metalwork,,,,, we can not make a definitive statement as to how highly polished brass furniture on a rifle of fowling piece might have been.

 

[Brokennock]

I prefer to take care of stuff

Despite what you describe as the history of your people,,, do you "prefer to take care of stuff," because it is how you were raised? I think a lot of us woodsrunners, or "woods bums," might be described as lazy by many, but, we were raised to clean an take care of our gear. Weapons and game get cleaned, usually before we do. I think this is instilled in many of us, mostly by fathers and uncles, who had it instilled in them by their fathers and uncles, and so on. It had to start somewhere in time.

 

[tenngun]

These are all military references. There is no argument that soldiers were to keep their arms, and all other gear that could possibly be polished, bright and shiny.
They have nothing to do with anyone outside the military though.
Until we find a written period account (really more than one) describing hunters, or frontier settlers, or even average citizens in a rural community, cleaning their guns,,,, that includes that they either polished or neglected to polish the exterior metalwork,,,,, we can not make a definitive statement as to how highly polished brass furniture on a rifle of fowling piece might have been.

We don’t have a quote
And we can get to any conclusion by following an ‘isn’t logical that….’
And that’s what I got. Not proof for sure.
People bought fancy goods, the cargo of the steamship Arabia was about3/4 work a day stuff. But had fancy cloth, silverware and ‘foo-fraw’ and not all of it for the ladies.
Iron was popular on SMR but silver seen. And lots of silver went on the Ohio and Michigan guns.
And much brass went on that wasn’t needed. Patch boxes, entry pipes, side plates, pin plates, wrist and general inlays
Now this is where we fail by applying today’s lookouts on yesterday’s minds but why have the extras if your just going to let them dull and blacken?
Please note how silly what I’m posting. The Hawken rifles came with very fancy browned iron cap boxes that blended in to dark stained wood.

 

[Brokennock]

We don’t have a quote
And we can get to any conclusion by following an ‘isn’t logical that….’
And that’s what I got. Not proof for sure.
People bought fancy goods, the cargo of the steamship Arabia was about3/4 work a day stuff. But had fancy cloth, silverware and ‘foo-fraw’ and not all of it for the ladies.
Iron was popular on SMR but silver seen. And lots of silver went on the Ohio and Michigan guns.
And much brass went on that wasn’t needed. Patch boxes, entry pipes, side plates, pin plates, wrist and general inlays
Now this is where we fail by applying today’s lookouts on yesterday’s minds but why have the extras if your just going to let them dull and blacken?

Exactly what I'm thinking.
We don't have that quote. And probably never will.
I have warned repeatedly in many posts on many topics that we can not apply our logic of today to the thoughts and inclinations of people in a time period of a vastly different culture with very different mores, social customs, and values.
I do think sometimes, in small ways, we can see things we do and think now, that came from our parents or grandparents, and trace those ideas back and come close to that era.

 

[FlinterNick]

Exactly what I'm thinking.
We don't have that quote. And probably never will.
I have warned repeatedly in many posts on many topics that we can not apply our logic of today to the thoughts and inclinations of people in a time period of a vastly different culture with very different mores, social customs, and values.
I do think sometimes, in small ways, we can see things we do and think now, that came from our parents or grandparents, and trace those ideas back and come close to that era.

You absolutely can make assumptions that are based evidence, because you have the guns and you have written accounts of many historical experts like Kit Ravensheer, Jess Melot, George Moller, Neuman, etc. These guys used assumptions based on documented facts and physical evidence in the guns. What you’re asking for is an ’absolute’ reference, when nothing is absolute, other than death and taxes, nothing is absolute. We can clearly say that it is highly probable this is the way it was done, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

best regards.

 

[Red Owl]

No way to probably tell for sure but off hand I'd look at all their other gear- most wasn't polished up that much. I'd vote for the idea it just naturally aged.

 

[Brokennock]

when nothing is absolute

Also from you,

Most guns in the field were not maintained to a high sheen, personalized guns would have been polished

This seems to be a pretty absolute statement.

Assumptions and presumptions are made all the time, and are necessary to develope the questions needed to drive research. But, they must always be acknowledged as presumptions and assumptions.
If we apply our modern way of thinking and reasoning to someone with the morals, ethics, social standards, and societal situations of the 18th century, and say to ourselves, "this is what I would have done and how I would have done it," and call it historical fact,,,, this is wrong. It is still just a best guess, a hypothesis based on our current situation and the way of thinking that goes with it.

you have written accounts of many historical experts like Kit Ravensheer, Jess Melot, George Moller, Neuman, etc.

These are all still modern people, not 1st person accounts from people at the time. Their thought and opinions may not be pulled out of thin air like those of some folks around here, they may be based on reasoning from examining some extent artifacts, rifles or accouterments, but, they are still just educated presumptions.

 

[Cattywompuss]

Despite what you describe as the history of your people,,, do you "prefer to take care of stuff," because it is how you were raised? I think a lot of us woodsrunners, or "woods bums," might be described as lazy by many, but, we were raised to clean an take care of our gear. Weapons and game get cleaned, usually before we do. I think this is instilled in many of us, mostly by fathers and uncles, who had it instilled in them by their fathers and uncles, and so on. It had to start somewhere in time.

No sir, it was instilled into me by the United States Air Force. My father didn't own stuff to take care of, despite hearing him now harping on how this younger generation just isn't the same and times were better back then. I learned it also from watching nothing last growing up. I'm the founding generation of the mindset for me and mine. Now if you step back a few generations in my mom's family maybe it was there. After all, you can't run a tobacco farm for 300 years without some of the solid solidness people claim to value.

 

[Brokennock]

No sir, it was instilled into me by the United States Air Force. My father didn't own stuff to take care of, despite hearing him now harping on how this younger generation just isn't the same and times were better back then. I learned it also from watching nothing last growing up. I'm the founding generation of the mindset for me and mine. Now if you step back a few generations in my mom's family maybe it was there. After all, you can't run a tobacco farm for 300 years without some of the solid solidness people claim to value.

Funny, I was going to mention the military as the other option for instilling this mentality.

 

[Cattywompuss]

Funny, I was going to mention the military as the other option for instilling this mentality.

Funnily enough, in a roundabout way I did learn it from my father as in "don't be like that"

 

[FlinterNick]

Also from you,

This seems to be a pretty absolute statement.

Assumptions and presumptions are made all the time, and are necessary to develope the questions needed to drive research. But, they must always be acknowledged as presumptions and assumptions.
If we apply our modern way of thinking and reasoning to someone with the morals, ethics, social standards, and societal situations of the 18th century, and say to ourselves, "this is what I would have done and how I would have done it," and call it historical fact,,,, this is wrong. It is still just a best guess, a hypothesis based on our current situation and the way of thinking that goes with it.


These are all still modern people, not 1st person accounts from people at the time. Their thought and opinions may not be pulled out of thin air like those of some folks around here, they may be based on reasoning from examining some extent artifacts, rifles or accouterments, but, they are still just educated presumptions.

You’re saying that the accountraments and research of Jess Melot and Kit Ravensheer are not worthy as good references ? well, you’re not in the majority here.