brass springs?

[tom in nc]

Borrowing/stealing another pic from a thread on here... this is the second time I have seen a pic of a gun with what appears to be a mainspring made of brass. Can springs really be made of brass?

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Thats a great question although I dont think brass has the carbon qualities in it that make steel "springy". Someone with more knowledge could weigh in.. could be a more of a decorative thing on the item in the picture?

 

[TobJohn]

The Japanese certainly thought it worked. For snapping matchlocks, the parts do not need to be particularly strong strings. The Japanese also used brass clock style springs with their guns. I have a picture of a lock on my home computer that has an adjustable tension for the mainspring, to compensate for wear.

 

[Juice Jaws]

Of course springs can be made of brass, of course they are not going to work for very long.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

You can answer your own question. Shape a piece of brass as the spring you want. Then flex it like it will be used. Did it return to it's original shape or did it take the new shape?

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Of course springs can be made of brass, of course they are not going to work for very long.

Yeah ... I guess working for a few hundred years isn't enough time, LOL!

Now a brass spring surely won't out live a spring steel one, but they can certainly be used! The springiness is imparted into brass by work hardening the material. The Japanese even made coil springs out of brass that yes ... still functions to this day, says the head armorer of the Matsumoto Gun Corp at the Matsumoto Castle in Nagano, Japan.

Brass, which is a zinc and copper alloy, is an extraordinary material for spring manufacturing. It has many properties that make it a good choice for many applications. Brass springs are extremely strong yet flexible and capable of storing large amounts of potential and mechanical energy. Brass springs are common in many electro-mechanical devices as well as locks and watches, as well as for use in critical applications where a steel spring could corrode or be subject to galvanic corrosion (dissimilar metals).

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

You can answer your own question. Shape a piece of brass as the spring you want. Then flex it like it will be used. Did it return to it's original shape or did it take the new shape?

WRONG ... you missed the step where you hammered the springiness into the parent material ... a very critical step in spring making!

 

[ronaldrothb49]

WRONG ... you missed the step where you hammered the springiness into the parent material ... a very critical step in spring making!

You are right I meant to put that in there but had to take the pups out and my train of thought totally left the station without me.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I will be dipped.....never gave it a thought until this post. ya learn everyday. I had always thought that crystaline structures in metal determined it,s fitness for a particular use.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I had always thought that crystaline structures in metal determined its fitness for a particular use.

Heat or cold (e.g., cryo-freeze) treating or in the case of brass, hammer forming will change that structure.

 

[Juice Jaws]

Yeah ... I guess working for a few hundred years isn't enough time, LOL!

Now a brass spring surely won't out live a spring steel one, but they can certainly be used! The springiness is imparted into brass by work hardening the material. The Japanese even made coil springs out of brass that yes ... still functions to this day, says the head armorer of the Matsumoto Gun Corp at the Matsumoto Castle in Nagano, Japan.

Brass, which is a zinc and copper alloy, is an extraordinary material for spring manufacturing. It has many properties that make it a good choice for many applications. Brass springs are extremely strong yet flexible and capable of storing large amounts of potential and mechanical energy. Brass springs are common in many electro-mechanical devices as well as locks and watches, as well as for use in critical applications where a steel spring could corrode or be subject to galvanic corrosion (dissimilar metals).

I guess Amercian arms makers miss the boat on not using brass springs. Didn't say you can't use them, just that they are not going to last. Just because you have a gun that is a couple hundred years old with a brass spring doesn't mean it was use a lot.

 

[Sam squanch]

The serpentine on a brass spring matchlock like the Japanese ones did not have to move very far. So a brass spring was sufficient for them.

 

[tenngun]

The serpentine on a brass spring matchlock like the Japanese ones did not have to move very far. So a brass spring was sufficient for them.

I don’t know diddly about metal work, haven’t a clue how to make a spring
But I broke a sear spring. I took some brass modeling brass wire bent a L and rapped a couple turns around the screw. The short end of the L I put in the sear spring notch, then ran the rest of the L over the sear.
Finished my shoot, and shot tge next weekend
No online orders then took almost a month to find and replace my spring and get it via snail mail
I’m sure it wouldn’t have lasted too long, but lasted thirty shots or so

 

[russellshaffer]

Take a look into a barometer. Pretty sure that is a brass spring.

 

[Henry Elwood]

Greetings, I have used brass for my prototype springs for my guns I wasn't sure of, for years. In a Patchbox class at WKU can't remember currently but Gary Brumfield or Wallace Gussler told us that Brass Springs were used in original Box lids. I also use to make Cone shaped Brass Springs for my Dad when he need a replacement for his Telegraph Key collection. No problem that's what they were originally made of. Hank

 

[BillinOregon]

I have made a few small items out of hammered copper and it does not take much for it to harden considerably. You then heat it and quench in water to restore malleability. Even a small piece may take several cycles of heating and quenching. Brass is basically two-thirds copper and one-third zinc. I have never worked with pure zinc and know nothing of its working qualities.

 

[rickystl]

On a Japanese matchlock, if you pull back the serpentine to the cocked position, you notice there is very little tension on the mainspring. And the distance between the serpentine and the pan is very short. So a brass mainspring for this style of snap matchlock would, and did work.
I once held the lock from one of these guns that was made or converted to percussion. Of course a brass mainspring would not be strong enough for continuous use with a percussion arm. The mainspring was forged iron, and located on the inside of the lock plate. What struck me was how the mainspring looked just like the mainsprings from back-action percussion locks.

Rick

 

[dracer]

just shows you are never to old to learn something I never thought of brass to make a spring

 

[dpasek]

Brass, which specifically means an alloy of copper and zinc, does not make very good springs. Most metals are somewhat springy unless they are dead soft or dead brittle. Most solid materials have what is known as a modulus of elasticity, which is a measure of springiness. The exhibit shown at top is probably yellow brass.
There are some copper alloys that are useful for making springs, phosphor bronze comes to mind. Some copper alloys can be heat treated using a mechanism known as precipitation hardening. This is different than work hardening, and different yet from the mechanism used to harden steel. I won't go into the details although I know where to find specific information as needed.
So, yes, there are spring bronze alloys, but they have to be carefully and correctly treated to get and keep their spring.

 

[Nwtradegunner]

Brass, which specifically means an alloy of copper and zinc, does not make very good springs. Most metals are somewhat springy unless they are dead soft or dead brittle. Most solid materials have what is known as a modulus of elasticity, which is a measure of springiness. The exhibit shown at top is probably yellow brass.
There are some copper alloys that are useful for making springs, phosphor bronze comes to mind. Some copper alloys can be heat treated using a mechanism known as precipitation hardening. This is different than work hardening, and different yet from the mechanism used to harden steel. I won't go into the details although I know where to find specific information as needed.
So, yes, there are spring bronze alloys, but they have to be carefully and correctly treated to get and keep their spring.

There is a remote possibility of making a spring of sorts out of brass. With working with copper or brass; to soften (annealing) it a person would heat it and quench it in water. As the metal is worked/hammered; it would harden and eventually become brittle. The opposite happens with high carbon steel. You heat it and quench it to make it very hard = brittle. To soften it you would apply “controlled heat” by either a temperature controlled oven or the old method of polishing the item and applying heat to it over a forge fire or torch. Then watching the colour change. As the metal is heated it goes through a series of colours. Purple is the desired colour to attain a spring. As soon as that happens; quickly quench it in oil to halt it at the spring stage. I’m guessing that you could obtain some springiness by “controlled” hammering.” I think the springiness would increase with usage. The formulation/% of copper to zinc would have to be pretty precise to attain consistent results.