I have a .54 cal t/c renegade flint barrel that I would like to remove the breech plug for another project, but never removed one before, and would like a little help. Thanks
Breech plug removal
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Just a heads up, TC used a prioritized thread for their plugs,, it's not a 3/4x16 that many new barrels accept. And that plug was fitted to that barrel,, it's harder to try to fit used plug on a new barrel. There is more to the fit than just turning it tight.
Unless your barrel is junk, it's best to just leave it and get a TC type after market plug.
But basically it's a large padded vice on a heavy table and a BIG cresent wrench with a breaker bar,, not a pipe wrench and not a vise grip.
Unless your barrel is junk, it's best to just leave it and get a TC type after market plug.
But basically it's a large padded vice on a heavy table and a BIG cresent wrench with a breaker bar,, not a pipe wrench and not a vise grip.
When necchi says "padded" he is referring to putting a soft metal "pad" on the vice jaws.
The best material for the pad is brass or bronze.
These materials are soft enough to prevent any damage to the barrel but they are hard enough so the pad doesn't crush under the heavy loads.
Aluminum pads 1/16" thick or more will work but not as well.
Lead works very poorly because of its softness.
Wood rarely works at all.
When clamping, position the jaws of the vise at least 1 inch ahead of the breech plug so the vise jaws pressure is not squeezing the barrel threads down against the plug's threads.
The best material for the pad is brass or bronze.
These materials are soft enough to prevent any damage to the barrel but they are hard enough so the pad doesn't crush under the heavy loads.
Aluminum pads 1/16" thick or more will work but not as well.
Lead works very poorly because of its softness.
Wood rarely works at all.
When clamping, position the jaws of the vise at least 1 inch ahead of the breech plug so the vise jaws pressure is not squeezing the barrel threads down against the plug's threads.
Thanks guys, will just buy a new plug, and leave this one in
The only thing wrong with this thread is the replies you have received so far are very expert and right on point.
Nothing left for the rest of us in the peanut gallery to yak about. :haha:
Read and heed what they said.
Never screw with what was designed to not be screwed with. :nono:
Nothing left for the rest of us in the peanut gallery to yak about. :haha:
Read and heed what they said.
Never screw with what was designed to not be screwed with. :nono:
Patocazador
54 Cal.
I have a breach plug removal attachment made by T/C as an accessory for safely removing the breach plug. It's just a machined square that fits the plug and you engage the square with your wrench rather than buggering up the plug. It is probably no longer available.
I have never used mine.
I have never used mine.
longcruise
70 Cal.
Do you want to remove the plug to repurpose the plug or are you wanting to repurpose the barrel?
If the barrel, just vice it up and wail on it with a big crescent. If you plan to repurpose the plug, it's just not worth it, IMO.
If the barrel, just vice it up and wail on it with a big crescent. If you plan to repurpose the plug, it's just not worth it, IMO.
galamb
58 Cal.
Agree - a new plug from the Gun Works is about 30 bucks - that will leave you lot's of "meat" to time the plug in correctly in the new barrel (so you can make the plug fit the breech of the barrel instead of the other way around - just safer all round).
Patocazador said:
I also have one and also never used. But, I believe mine will only fit the 15/16" TC patent breech.
longcruise
70 Cal.
On my first range trip with my brand new TC in '74, I managed to make a huge mess of the cleaning project. Result was the rod jammed up in the bore with a huge chunk of old T shirt! In a panic, I loaded it up with oil to prevent rust and the next day took it to the only ML Smith I knew of.
he had to remove the breech plug with one of those wrench fittings and the biggest crescent wrench I ever laid eyes on! He had to put all his weight on it and bounce up and down to get it loose. All was well once he drove my mess out and rebreeched it.
decided right there on the spot that I'd not be doing that job myself any time in the future!
he had to remove the breech plug with one of those wrench fittings and the biggest crescent wrench I ever laid eyes on! He had to put all his weight on it and bounce up and down to get it loose. All was well once he drove my mess out and rebreeched it.
decided right there on the spot that I'd not be doing that job myself any time in the future!
I have a similar predicament with .50 caliber T/C Hawken. I want to remove its' percussion BP and replace it with a flintlock BP. I have tried many things and even rounded a few of the hex outer corners of the barrel (very lightly, not enough to affect strength or shot of the barrel). So, I have two questions 1) will using bronze or brass scratch the barrel? 2)Using the kind of force/pressure on the barrel, to keep it in place, will it "dent" or warp the barrel? I have tried using a crescent wrenches and other types of better fitting wrenches but have just been concerned that if I put enough force on the barrel itself, I will severly damage the barrel. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks for the help!
Grizzly Adams
50 Cal.
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I don't think you are in too much trouble at all as far as damaging the barrel goes but often those breech plugs are very stubborn to remove. Maybe put some kroil down the bore and let the barrel set vertically, muzzle up for a week or so to let that oil do it's thing. If that doesn't work you may need to enlist the help of a gunsmith. I actually have an invest arms 54 cal that I bought used and there was severe galling and deep lines gouged in the barrel from someone using a pipe wrench to try to take the BP off :shake: :barf: . Worse comes to worse you could always get a green mountain drop in barrel and have both a flint and percussion. Hope this helps:2
marmotslayer said:
In exactly the time period you mention, TC 'hawkens' had some serious breech problems due to the manufacturing techniques. This was well documented in the Buckskin Report magazine put out by John Baird. The 'patch grabber' was common because the breech/barrel mating was far less than perfect. The tourque standards for installing the breech plug at the factory were, as you found, pretty extreme. I hope yours was OK after the fix. Actually, I do not know how a breech with an internal gap could be replaced properly without a lot of machining. :idunno:
ohio ramrod
75 Cal.
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Kroil is the best commercially available penetrating oil that I know of. It is available on line. Or you could mix your own "super penetrating oil" by mixing acetone and automatic transmission oil 50/50. :idunno: :idunno:
Bo:
As many have noted, all of the TC muzzleloaders breechplugs are very difficult to remove.
To answer some of your questions, no, bronze or brass sheet metal plates will not scratch your barrel.
Some brass colored marks are often seen if the barrel moved at all while a breech plug was being removed but the marks are just some brass/bronze that smeared off of the plate. With enough wiping or by very lightly using some #0000 steel wool they will rub right off leaving the barrel unharmed.
Even tightening a big vise up to its limit won't dent or warp the barrel permanently. The barrel will regain its original size and shape after the clamping pressure is removed.
I worded the last sentence that way because during the clamping, yes, the barrel will temporarily deform. The jaws will crush it slightly out of round.
This is important to keep in mind because if the clamping pressure is over the breech plug threads, the pressure will crush the barrel wall into the plugs threads.
Needless to say, if the barrel wall is squeezing the hell out of the breech plug threads, they are not going to be easy to unscrew.
For that reason, keep the vise jaws at least 1 1/2 inches away from the parting line where the actual barrel ends and the breech plug begins.
As many have noted, all of the TC muzzleloaders breechplugs are very difficult to remove.
To answer some of your questions, no, bronze or brass sheet metal plates will not scratch your barrel.
Some brass colored marks are often seen if the barrel moved at all while a breech plug was being removed but the marks are just some brass/bronze that smeared off of the plate. With enough wiping or by very lightly using some #0000 steel wool they will rub right off leaving the barrel unharmed.
Even tightening a big vise up to its limit won't dent or warp the barrel permanently. The barrel will regain its original size and shape after the clamping pressure is removed.
I worded the last sentence that way because during the clamping, yes, the barrel will temporarily deform. The jaws will crush it slightly out of round.
This is important to keep in mind because if the clamping pressure is over the breech plug threads, the pressure will crush the barrel wall into the plugs threads.
Needless to say, if the barrel wall is squeezing the hell out of the breech plug threads, they are not going to be easy to unscrew.
For that reason, keep the vise jaws at least 1 1/2 inches away from the parting line where the actual barrel ends and the breech plug begins.
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I like to use a penetrate oil in conjunction with a propane torch. This assuming a proper plug wrench and barrel holding fixture is used.
The heat up expands the barrel and breaks the thread lock radially, even of corrosion.
You cannot get a barrel and breech plug hot enough with a standard propane torch to change the heat treat in them because of the mass and the heat greatly lessons the torsional stress on both the barrel and plug when separating them.
This amount of heat will not ruin the bluing or browning either. Mike D.
The heat up expands the barrel and breaks the thread lock radially, even of corrosion.
You cannot get a barrel and breech plug hot enough with a standard propane torch to change the heat treat in them because of the mass and the heat greatly lessons the torsional stress on both the barrel and plug when separating them.
This amount of heat will not ruin the bluing or browning either. Mike D.
zimmerstutzen
70 Cal.
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I have removed a couple over the years. only the 15/16 and all were standard breech threads. I have a heavy work bench with a big 8 inch jaw mechanics vise and padded the jaws with hard rock maple to hold the barrel. On the flint breech plugs I used a 15/16 impact socket with 1/2 inch breaker bar and a piece of pipe over that to extend the leverage. (I stuffed wadded paper in the socket so it would not go over the barrel. The plug was difficult to budge but once I had a 8th of a turn, it came much easier.
Removing a breech from another gun years ago, I actually flipped the whole work bench over.
While it can be done and many do it. Don't do it unless you absolutely have no other alternative. Buy another first.
Removing a breech from another gun years ago, I actually flipped the whole work bench over.
While it can be done and many do it. Don't do it unless you absolutely have no other alternative. Buy another first.
Col. Batguano
75 Cal.
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Yeah and re-installing them to get them to EXACTLY line up (with no hint of any type of ridge between the barrel and tang) is really hard. I just put in a vent liner this weekend, and it took forever. I still had to hit it with the 400 grit to get it to the smoothness it had before.
