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Breech Plug to Touch Hole interface

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Gents:

I have a small dilemma.

BreechPlug-S.jpg


My circa 1680s Club Butt fowler that I acquired ”˜used’, is just not reliable for ignition. After a good soaking with Kroil, a solid bench vise, and a large wrench ”¦ I got the breech plug out.

Problem: As you can see, the drilled touch hole (TH) actually interferes right on top of the last thread (not fully formed) of the plug. If/when I picked the TH, the vent pick would not enter the barrel straight, or perpendicular, but would take a large angle towards the muzzle. Between that and miss-fires, even when primed with 4Fg and picked, and I knew I had to do something.

Goal: Since I have it all apart, I’d like to add a Chambers White Lightning TH liner. Either way, with a WL liner or not, even if I file/grind/polish a “groove” into the face of the breech plug as was done with early real arms from yesteryear ”¦ I’ve been told I should be concerned with water from cleaning seeping down into the barrel threads, where either the WL liner or proposed groove is cut away from the existing breech plug top edge surface.

What do I do to prevent that from being a real concern? I have the best thread anti-siezing compounds available on hand:

- Tef-Gel (FANTASTIC for stainless steels!)
-Permatex nickel and copper-based anti-sieze compounds
-Triple Guard, a blue-colored waterproof fully synthetic grease (I use this extensively on boats [my otha’ hobby!] and it doesn’t break down even with saltwater immersion and actually still protects even when ”˜mixed’ at a ratio of 75% grease to 25% saltwater)
-OMC gasket sealing compound, probably made by Permatex (I use this on OB motor lower unit bolts immersed in saltwater and I’ve never failed to remove a bolt even after years of saltwater use ”¦ and have done this successfully on dozens of motors for 40+ years)

Plan: What I’d like to do is tap/thread the barrel for the WL liner, using my drill press with mill vise so I know I can get a perfect tight cut and full threadform. I intend to thread the plug in fully greased and lubed with CLP (as I WILL remove it, possibly a few times) and then fit the Chambers WL liner.

I guess what I’m alluding to, is where the plug threads will “hit” the WL liner - do I grind away some of the breech plug (like the proposed groove) or do I surgically remove some of the WL liner threads? Whereas some of the WL liner will behind the face of the breech plug, I believe I should leave as much of the WL liner threads intact, no?

With all that ”¦ I remain VERY curious what to do whereas I have a well-breeched plug LESS the existing TH location is right at the face of the plug, which means it is already centered on the pan placement as is. Personally I think the builder should have set the breeched barrel back another 1/8” or so to move the TH a tad forward.

Also interested in comments on the THE best thread goop to use.

Cheers!
 
I would file a nice angled groove and then use a good anti-seize type thread sealer. Take it easy on the thread sealer because you don't want it squeezing into the barrel chamber or covering up the touch hole/groove.
 
File out the groove as you've shown in yellow,polish it bright,seal threads with anti seize of your choice and don't worry about it.Contrary to popular belief even the best fit breach plug will allow a little water in the first couple of threads.Keep it clean and oiled and you won't have a problem.

Mitch
 
Ghettogun said:
I would file a nice angled groove ...
Why an ANGLED groove? You mean use a triangular file and have a hard, sharp 'V' to the bottom?

Usually in machining one tries to avoid a hard edge (causes a stress riser) and I'd guess that a rounded feature would best match the OD/edge of the WL liner. Plus it could be polished easier to minimize any build-up.

Thanks for your comments :hatsoff: !
 
Is there any possibility of moving the TH slightly forward seeing you/ve got a mill? Anyways, I'd use the 1/4" White Lightning liner {smallest}....drill and tap w/o the plug in and then install the plug and scribe through the tapped hole the area that has to be removed from the plug face. The "groove" should actually be a "funnel" {cone shaped} which is across 2/3 of the plug face. The WL shouldn't project into the bore and I shorten the length before installing. Also the tapped hole @ the bore for the liner should be deburred. Many original rifles had the "funnel" in the plug face and survived many yrs of shooting. Your sealant sounds good.....Fred
 
tallbear said:
File ... seal ... and don't worry about it.
Mitch. Thanks - so true, maybe I am over-thinking it, but I just wanted to be re-assured. Plus, maybe the picture and post replies would help someone else here when they search the archives.

flehto said:
Is there any possibility of moving the TH slightly forward seeing you've got a mill?
Fred - Thanks, but no chance. As it the TH is centered PERFECTLY on the pan, less the barrel shudda (Boston speak ...) been setback a tad.

So, for best performance using a Chambers WL liner, in relation to the center of the pan, where should the face of the breech plug be??? I ask as I would like to try a rifle kit for my next build ... provided the 3 in-process ahead of it ever get done ... :idunno:
 
I try to get the cone of the liner to finish just in front of the plug face.

Mitch
 
My suggestion is to make it just as you have it illustrated and put some plumbers dope on the threads. You will get all kinds of warnings about this type of proceedure but It was done for hundreds of years and I have done it dozens of times in the last 52 years with no problems. Some advisers on here will tell you to shine the bottom of your shoes. The breech plug will have to turn sideways to come out so don't worry.
PS-- don't use locktight.
 
Duh :surrender: ... I get the "angle" now, just 'angle' it up from the side to the face of the plug. Sorry, I thought people were advising an angular-shaped groove ... mea culpa.
 
I'm in Flehto's camp -- I would use a milling machine or a very ridged drill press fixture and move the threaded hole for the liner forward -- my two cents :wink: .
 
What I meant to say...I would use a round file and file a groove from where the touch hole is now mating into the face of the breechplug in such an angle to make picking the vent easy.
 
I wouldn't even consider installing a White Lightning vent liner or any other kind of vent liner in that gun.

If you think there's problems now with the vent location and the breech plug just imagine what it would look like with an interference over 4 times greater.
Even the 1/4-32 threaded WL plug would be well into the face of the breech plug.
 
how do you figure that Zonie. Ive done a lot of them like that and never had a single problem. I did two last week.
 
The comment was made thinking that the person could be drilling into the barrel with the breech plug installed.
The tap drill and the tap would then be cutting into the face of the breech plug.
That would make the drilling and tapping an interrupted cut far deeper than the little nick that is shown on the OP's photo.

If the tap drill was done without the breechplug in place the resulting hole would still be an interrupted cut with the drill and tap hanging out in the area of the breech plug threads.

While this could be done, if the vent liner were to be installed, a part of its external threads would be positioned in the same place that the breech plug threads wish to be.

I suppose if one were to install the vent liner and then grind off the threads that were trying to occupy the breech plugs thread space that would work but then, in order to remove the vent liner one would have to remove the breech plug first.
occupying the
 
I do this with the breech plug removed and then cut the liner to accomadate the breech plug as you stated. I don't see any reason for anybody to ever remove a vent liner.
 
jerry huddleston said:
I do this with the breech plug removed and then cut the liner to accomadate the breech plug as you stated. I don't see any reason for anybody to ever remove a vent liner.
Well, I installed it w/ the breech plug removed and it came out great! As a few have pointed out, I had to be careful where the TH threads 'interfaced' with the breech plug, but since I don't plan on removing each, unless I burn out the TH ... I should be all set.

In fact, the ignition was soooooo fast that the other shooters thought I was shooting' a cap gun!
 
Hello Flint62,
It is obvious that you have resolved your problem.
To others, an easy remedy is to mill a small grove in the face of the breech plug, exactly where the small drill mark was made.
A radius grove will help ignition, and also be easy to clean.
I do it frequently.
I works well!
Fred
 

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