Brown Bess Lockplate Modification

[sturmkatze]

Okay. To me $800 for the entire gun doesn’t scream rarity.

Who buys repro guns to collect? How stupid. Collectors have ruined most hobbies. Anyway, I told you where there was a plate that was already done… you’re not gonna do that.

 

[FlinterNick]

Who buys repro guns to collect? How stupid. Collectors have ruined most hobbies. Anyway, I told you where there was a plate that was already done… you’re not gonna do that.

I doubt that plate will interchange with his parts, especially the frizzen. Those early pedersoli locks were hand made. I’ve had several in my shop, replacement parts often need to be cast parts that are fit, lost wax copied or hand made.

 

[Josh Sawyer]

Who buys repro guns to collect? How stupid. Collectors have ruined most hobbies. Anyway, I told you where there was a plate that was already done… you’re not gonna do that.

I’d rather just pay Nick to remove all the lock markings including the ones on the cock and frizzen. Again it will end up being a slightly more authentic looking CoS musket.

 

[sturmkatze]

Well, I’ll post it anyway. Maybe someone will make it into a Dublin Castle.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3260370309..._6lg3h-RzC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[1971fx]

Original with the Elephant

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Guys, I urge you to stop and let Josh do what he desires. He has a plan and it could work out. There were several "special" Brown Besses made over the years by commercial makers, Coach and Harness, Holland and Holland, Stowe by Pedersoli, etc. None have much value as historically correct reproductions. They may have special value to old reenactors who remember "back when" but as accurate examples of the British Brown Bess made during the 18th century, they fall far short. In fact, all of them grossly and egregiously insult the skilled workers who made the real muskets. To me, they have no special value except as remembrances for some folks. Many reenactors turn up their noses at participants with machine sown garments and incorrectly designed and made accoutrements, yet those same people carry around and demonstrate to the public commercially made repro muskets that do not in any way reflect 18th century British work. All would fail the first inspection by ordnance.

dave

 

[springfield art]

I’m in communication with Dave. Thanks!

I will say this, though; a local highly skilled metal shop/fabricator cut my M1842 musket barrel repro down for me to make a Macon-type shortie. Simple to cut a steel tube, but I agree, don't take a lock plate to anyone that's not hip to shooting.

 

[Tumbledown]

Italian locks will not fit to an Indian made musket, not worth trying to do.

I didn't say to put the lock in an Indian gun. This lock is part of a complete gun. I suggested he sell that gun, intact, and modify an Indian gun.

 

[Tumbledown]

Hi,
Guys, I urge you to stop and let Josh do what he desires. He has a plan and it could work out. There were several "special" Brown Besses made over the years by commercial makers, Coach and Harness, Holland and Holland, Stowe by Pedersoli, etc. None have much value as historically correct reproductions. They may have special value to old reenactors who remember "back when" but as accurate examples of the British Brown Bess made during the 18th century, they fall far short. In fact, all of them grossly and egregiously insult the skilled workers who made the real muskets. To me, they have no special value except as remembrances for some folks. Many reenactors turn up their noses at participants with machine sown garments and incorrectly designed and made accoutrements, yet those same people carry around and demonstrate to the public commercially made repro muskets that do not in any way reflect 18th century British work. All would fail the first inspection by ordnance.

dave

The Stowe locks were on Navy Arms guns, from what I've read here on these forums and elsewhere. Pedersoli made the locks and barrels, but Navy Arms made the stocks. How do the NA models compare? (Honest question- I know how the Pedersoli falls short, and I respect your opinion.)

 

[Tumbledown]

Who buys repro guns to collect? How stupid. Collectors have ruined most hobbies.

The Stowes are over 50 years old. I didn't buy mine as a collectable, but it does have history and I don't want to ruin it, either.

 

[FlinterNick]

The Stowe locks were on Navy Arms guns, from what I've read here on these forums and elsewhere. Pedersoli made the locks and barrels, but Navy Arms made the stocks. How do the NA models compare? (Honest question- I know how the Pedersoli falls short, and I respect your opinion.)

On the very early guns, pedersoli was contracted to make the locks, hardware and barrels. Navy Arms and Dixie Gun Works made their own stocks until they were cheaper to have imported. Navy Arms offered three choices, Maple, Walnut and Cherry, its very rare to find an early miroku bess or charleville in walnut or a pedersoli in cherry.

 

[FlinterNick]

I didn't say to put the lock in an Indian gun. This lock is part of a complete gun. I suggested he sell that gun, intact, and modify an Indian gun.

Removing the lock markings on a pedersoli lock or remarking it is not a very complicated task, and it’s not overly costly and it certainly adds value to the musket, more better off modifying a pedersoli or miroku than an Indian musket. Modifications to Indian made muskets tend to result in sunk costs.

 

[Josh Sawyer]

On the very early guns, pedersoli was contracted to make the locks, hardware and barrels. Navy Arms and Dixie Gun Works made their own stocks until they were cheaper to have imported. Navy Arms offered three choices, Maple, Walnut and Cherry, its very rare to find an early miroku bess or charleville in walnut or a pedersoli in cherry.

I can tell you that the barrel was nicely browned and the underside of the tang is marked made in Italy. The barrel walls are also VERY thin. The back of the lock is also marked made in Italy.

 

[PrinterJohn]

Josh,

I built a Stowe from a Navy Arms kit in the 1960s with a maple stock. I think I have one of the few bess's with a tiger stock, Jerry Stowe was active in the Brigade of the American Revolution and a gentleman. He worked at West Point and when he passed away Val (Navy Arms) had some of the locks marked with his name.
The inside of my lock is marked DP indicating it was made by Pedersoli. I have used this musket for all these years and although it doesn't have any real collecting significance I feel honored to have known the man it was named for. I would leave the musket as is and look for another to convert or have another lock built from a TRS kit and just switch locks.

 

[Tumbledown]

Josh,

I built a Stowe from a Navy Arms kit in the 1960s with a maple stock. I think I have one of the few bess's with a tiger stock, Jerry Stowe was active in the Brigade of the American Revolution and a gentleman. He worked at West Point and when he passed away Val (Navy Arms) had some of the locks marked with his name.
The inside of my lock is marked DP indicating it was made by Pedersoli. I have used this musket for all these years and although it doesn't have any real collecting significance I feel honored to have known the man it was named for. I would leave the musket as is and look for another to convert or have another lock built from a TRS kit and just switch locks.

I didn't know his BAR history.

 

[rich pierce]

Lots of good information here on welding up deep engraving on locks.

Some of us are fortunate to know guys who work on these guns for far below regular hourly wages for skilled craftsmen. Imagine going to an excellent welding shop and getting this done properly, and what that might cost. And if it’s not right, or full of pinholes, what are you going to do?

 

[FlinterNick]

Lots of good information here on welding up deep engraving on locks.

Some of us are fortunate to know guys who work on these guns for far below regular hourly wages for skilled craftsmen. Imagine going to an excellent welding shop and getting this done properly, and what that might cost. And if it’s not right, or full of pinholes, what are you going to do?

Some gunsmiths have those sunstone micro TIG welders, they run around 3-8000 with the AI tech, they charge around 500 per job, just for the welding, not the engraving.

 

[FlinterNick]

Josh,

I built a Stowe from a Navy Arms kit in the 1960s with a maple stock. I think I have one of the few bess's with a tiger stock, Jerry Stowe was active in the Brigade of the American Revolution and a gentleman. He worked at West Point and when he passed away Val (Navy Arms) had some of the locks marked with his name.
The inside of my lock is marked DP indicating it was made by Pedersoli. I have used this musket for all these years and although it doesn't have any real collecting significance I feel honored to have known the man it was named for. I would leave the musket as is and look for another to convert or have another lock built from a TRS kit and just switch locks.

You’ve got a rare one there ! I’ve only seen one navy arms miroku charleville 1766 stocked in walnut, it was done rather well. the owner stated he will be buried with it, wouldn’t take any offers.

 

[Tumbledown]

Josh, have you started this project yet? I've been looking mine over, and am actually considering something like this. I am seeing what dave_person and FlinterNick mean regarding the overall stock appearance.