Brown Bess name origin?

[Loyalist Dave]

Apparently, "Brown Bess" is a very old combination of slang terms, with "Brown" meaning common/everyday/plain, and "Bess" being a stereo typical peasant or commoner, woman' name, especially if that woman were involved in prostitution. Today though, over time some of the old slang has changed or lost meaning. For one example, "sluttish" today means a woman of "loose sexual morals" but a few centuries ago, it mean "slovenly", and didn't have the sexual connotation that it has today [I've been taught]. It's this loss of meaning that has caused some of the confusion, or theories that "brown" somehow was due to color, and "Bess" was somehow connected to Queen Elizabeth aka Queen Bess....,

So IF we used modern American slang back when the musket became the primary , we might call the Brown Bess musket something like, "plain Jane". Note how many of our former service members will remember during their service being taught how their rifle was their new "girlfriend", and to care for that rifle as good or better than a girlfriend.

Here is an article that I found that seems to give a good account of where the name stems for the British service musket(s) that span three centuries:
History of The Term Brown Bess

LD

 

[springfield art]

Apparently, "Brown Bess" is a very old combination of slang terms, with "Brown" meaning common/everyday/plain, and "Bess" being a stereo typical peasant or commoner, woman' name, especially if that woman were involved in prostitution. Today though, over time some of the old slang has changed or lost meaning. For one example, "sluttish" today means a woman of "loose sexual morals" but a few centuries ago, it mean "slovenly", and didn't have the sexual connotation that it has today [I've been taught]. It's this loss of meaning that has caused some of the confusion, or theories that "brown" somehow was due to color, and "Bess" was somehow connected to Queen Elizabeth aka Queen Bess....,

So IF we used modern American slang back when the musket became the primary , we might call the Brown Bess musket something like, "plain Jane". Note how many of our former service members will remember during their service being taught how their rifle was their new "girlfriend", and to care for that rifle as good or better than a girlfriend.

Here is an article that I found that seems to give a good account of where the name stems for the British service musket(s) that span three centuries:
History of The Term Brown Bess

LD

Wow! Thanks! I printed out the 7 page article from the Royal Armories. I carried a Bess for 10 years as a "re-enactor" during the Bi-Cen. Nice to discover the RA site.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Bess or Bessy is/was a common name for a as well.

Connection? Perhaps.

 

[kje54]

Apparently, "Brown Bess" is a very old combination of slang terms, with "Brown" meaning common/everyday/plain, and "Bess" being a stereo typical peasant or commoner, woman' name, especially if that woman were involved in prostitution. Today though, over time some of the old slang has changed or lost meaning. For one example, "sluttish" today means a woman of "loose sexual morals" but a few centuries ago, it mean "slovenly", and didn't have the sexual connotation that it has today [I've been taught]. It's this loss of meaning that has caused some of the confusion, or theories that "brown" somehow was due to color, and "Bess" was somehow connected to Queen Elizabeth aka Queen Bess....,

So IF we used modern American slang back when the musket became the primary , we might call the Brown Bess musket something like, "plain Jane". Note how many of our former service members will remember during their service being taught how their rifle was their new "girlfriend", and to care for that rifle as good or better than a girlfriend.

Here is an article that I found that seems to give a good account of where the name stems for the British service musket(s) that span three centuries:
History of The Term Brown Bess

LD

Been wondering about that just never got around to looking it up. Thanks!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Bess or Bessy is/was a common name for a as well.
Connection? Perhaps.

Yeah perhaps,

American's are often called "Joe" overseas, just as British Soldiers are often referred to as "Tommy"..., and I think that waaaay back in the day, if you wanted to, how should I write it...call to woman whom you wished to pay to "date" you that evening, you would say, "Hey Bess, come 'ere."

Further, (the article only mentions this once) because the English pruning bill [tool] was also used as a medieval pole-arm combat weapon and that it was called a "bill" for short..., and soldiers called it when they carried it as a weapon as "Brown Bill", is likely another connection...as muskets (matchlocks and later wheel locks) were used WITH Brown Bill, that "Bill" needed a companion, and since "he" was always pared with muskets, "Brown Bess" makes a bit of sense, perhaps

LD

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

There are so many dozens, if not hundreds, of origins of the name that I believe it unknowable.

One thing for sure, I think they’re neat!

 

[user 48679]

I just happy it wasn't called Black Betty, after the rock song...….

 

[JCKelly]

A couple decades ago one of our Detroit media quoted a black man as saying ". . .he buss at me, I buss back . . . ". An associate of mine from Alabama knew exactly what this meant.
Buss means "shoot", or "gun", in, say, 17th century English. Yes, it is related to the German word for "gun", or "box"
Here in the USA we have kept some very old words that contemporary Englishmen have forgotten. These words were used by the common people, and will not be found in old English literature written by educated men. Generally these words can be found in rural Southern areas. One example I recall from the Chesapeake Bay is the phrase "Fetch me that flitch over there forninst the barn"
The "Brown Bess" means the "Brown Gun"
So far as the word "Brown" goes, early British muskets were known to be painted black.

Forget these "educated" explanations. Look to the very old English terms still used in our South. Do remember that so-called Black English is largely correct English for the 17th - 18th centuries. And rural people, such as plantation owners, spoke country English.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I just happy it wasn't called Black Betty, after the rock song...….

WHOOOAAA BLACK BETTY BAMA LAM WHOOOOAAAHHH god I hate that song.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There are so many dozens, if not hundreds, of origins of the name that I believe it unknowable.

One thing for sure, I think they’re neat!

Amen, Bro. I have a BB and like the term/name. Part of the charm is not knowing exactly what it means or how it originated. To me, it is now a term of endearment for this Rev. period firearm.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Amen, Bro. I have a BB and like the term/name. Part of the charm is not knowing exactly what it means or how it originated. To me, it is now a term of endearment for this Rev. period firearm.

I know what you mean. I prefer to think they were named after one of these:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

A couple decades ago one of our Detroit media quoted a black man as saying ". . .he buss at me, I buss back . . . ". An associate of mine from Alabama knew exactly what this meant.
Buss means "shoot", or "gun", in, say, 17th century English. Yes, it is related to the German word for "gun", or "box"

Except you are not allowing for consonate shift over the centuries, and are assuming that since a word known to your friend was similar enough to what he heard, it must be correct. Consonate shift, which is what normally happens over time. So you hear today a lot of people saying egg-zeg-you-tiv when it's ex-zek-you- tiv. It also happens when words are adopted from other languages. Examples of this would be howitzer vs. haubitze, or Caesar vs. Kaiser.

What the fellow in Detroit was saying was "bust" with a very soft if not silent "t". What he said was "he bus[t] [a cap] at me; and I bus[t] [a cap] back". It had nothing to do with the Germanic word that is similar.

And no, the term for the Bess does not refer to the color of the gun. That's pretty well established.

Forget these "educated" explanations. Look to the very old English terms still used in our South. Do remember that so-called Black English is largely correct English for the 17th - 18th centuries. And rural people, such as plantation owners, spoke country English.

Actually that's pretty far fetched.

There are a lot of journals and records where how the language was spoken is written in a phonetic spelling, even in the Southern colonies, so we know a lot of how it sounded.

"Black English" today in "the South" is not a throwback to common English of two hundred and fifty years ago. FAR from it.

In fact what the slaves were taught was what is known as a pidgin form of English. Blacks imported did not speak English and the owners did not speak any African language, so a simplified version of English was used..., also in part because it was thought that Blacks were not smart enough to learn proper English. Blacks born into slavery learned the language that was spoken around them, the pidgin form of English.

For the assertion that any group is using an older version of a modern language to work, you must have isolation. Other than an isolated island or two off the East Coast of the USA where a lot of Cornish was preserved, the "Black English" spoken in the South is a mixture of our current English, and that pidgin form that they were taught. Icelanders in Iceland speak an earlier form of Norse or Norwegian, again from a large amount of isolation. Further evidence of this is that the Blacks in Brazil for example, do not speak an older, original from of Portuguese, but they would have to for the idea that somehow without isolation they preserved the earlier form that they once learned..., OR...., Portuguese would have to remain static, and it has not.

LD

 

[tenngun]

I luv language talk. Word origins are so neat.
Bow , front of ship and bow, that thing you shoot an arrow with, both mean wood bent in to a half circle. Yet we pronounce it differnt. Brown Bess as meaning plain Jane is interesting. Bess as a corruption of bus is too a neat idea.
however you call it I think a bess, buss, kings musket, is just the prettiest military issue gun ever made.

 

[FlinterNick]

There’s lots of theories as to the name origins of the Brown Bess Name. One thing that was often quoted in letters and journals, was that a soldier in the field was married to ‘Brown Bess’.

The Brown is often thought to have been of German origin, as Braun for Brown or broad, however i think the title Brown was mostly derived from the Dark Brown coloring of the walnut stocks, as pre-land pattern English Muskets were very similar (such as the James Musket and Queen Ann), but were either painted dark or the stain was lighter due to the beech stocks that were often used.

In some writings the word Brown or Braun is thought to have referred to pickling or finishing of the barrel, which I don’t agree with. Pickled steel has a matte look, almost with a textured finish, its possible that the patina was developed with use Turned it brown.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I luv language talk. Word origins are so neat.
Bow , front of ship and bow, that thing you shoot an arrow with, both mean wood bent in to a half circle. Yet we pronounce it differnt. Brown Bess as meaning plain Jane is interesting. Bess as a corruption of bus is too a neat idea.
however you call it I think a bess, buss, kings musket, is just the prettiest military issue gun ever made.

YES I love the pinned barrels on the Bessies. I’ve got too many irons in the fire. I’ve already commissioned a Hawken (should be done soon) as well as a Schimmel rifle and also a fusil de chasse, but I’d love a handmade Bess. Pedersoli gets too many things wrong with theirs (not to mention all the nasty barrel literature and markings) and the Indian guns? No thanks lol!

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

There’s lots of theories as to the name origins of the Brown Bess Name. One thing that was often quoted in letters and journals, was that a soldier in the field was married to ‘Brown Bess’.

The Brown is often thought to have been of German origin, as Braun for Brown or broad, however i think the title Brown was mostly derived from the Dark Brown coloring of the walnut stocks, as pre-land pattern English Muskets were very similar (such as the James Musket and Queen Ann), but were either painted dark or the stain was lighter due to the beech stocks that were often used.

In some writings the word Brown or Braun is thought to have referred to pickling or finishing of the barrel, which I don’t agree with. Pickled steel has a matte look, almost with a textured finish, its possible that the patina was developed with use Turned it brown.

Pickled steel? Hmmmrrr?

That’s a new one to me going to have to research that.

 

[kje54]

Pickled steel? Hmmmrrr?

That’s a new one to me going to have to research that.

He may have gotten that from me, as far as I know I'm the only one to have used that word in this manner. It's an aging solution I use to create a certain "pickled" look to steel parts.

 

[FlinterNick]

Anyone know if cast brass nose caps were issued by the ordinance for field upgrades on 1730 or 1740 long land patterns?

in Goldsteins book, it refers to nose bands or caps as ad hoc replacements or upgrades.

I’ve seen originals with Fowler style cast nose caps, brass bands, copper bands and steel bands.

 

[Rató:rats]

I’ve always been partial to the opinion that the name came from the generic German term for a military longarm Braun Buss or strong gun. It was certainly stronger than the lighter civilian arms. Remember the three George’s were Hanoverian, George I never even learned English, most documents were translated to German so he could read them.
Braun or strong is where our term brawny comes from.

 

[jbwilliams3]

Dave, I read that article earlier this week and I also found it thoroughly informative. I think the etymology is clear and provides a far better and more definitive explanation for the name than anything I've read before. What I found most interesting was the backdating of the term based on quotes previously unknown to researchers. In oral history studies, hey call this "bedrock" data. Very cool. I was always under the impression that the term was very late in the 18th century and then seldom used until later. This proves, I think, that the rank and file were using it far earlier. Very cool. I still prefer "King's pattern" etc. for most usage but it's a fun pejorative that I think more living history blokes can use in the right context.