Browning a barrel

[Cowboy]

Fred, Just wanted to thank you for giving me the idea of using the Ammonia to kill the rusting process! You taught me a very valuable lesson that not only worked on this very difficult barrel but a great lesson that I can carry on to using on my future projects.

It's a very quick and easy solution! Makes me wonder why they didn't include this option in their directions?

Anyway Fred, You have taught me a very valuable lesson sir and I thank ya kindly! :grin:

Problem Solved!!!

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Vaino]

Happy for you that it worked. By the way....where is Oakwood?......Fred

 

[Cowboy]

Oakwood is located in East Central IL. Right near the Illinois,Indiana border.

Oakwood is a very small farming town. Matter of fact,it goes by the word of, Village of Oakwood. With the Village to include the surrounding farms, our population is about 1500.

Respectfully,Cowboy

 

[wulf]

Thank you Zonie. Very informative. That is why
I asked you....You know all that stuff...

Wulf

 

[mauserdad]

Being new at this I have studied the above postings. I ordered the LMF. Now for questions. What does it mean when you all say the barrel had to be "carded"? In using ammonia do you dilute it? How do you all apply? Do you let it set up on the barrel? Just rinse off? Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks . Ed

 

[necchi]

"Carded" means rub it with course cloth. Basically scraping the rust off but using cloth to not scrape it all off.
Household ammonia full strength,, a bowl, glove and a rag,, wipe it down good and Yes,, rinse under water.
Ya can't mess it up. If you don't like what ya get,, just sand it off lightly and try again. That's the beauty of LMF,, a rooky can't cause damage to anything,,

 

[mauserdad]

Thank you Sir. Learning every day.

 

[kaintuck]

and yes...water, ammonia, baking soda, all will slow then stop the rust process.......but just wash n wipe with this stuff until it don't come off in your hands anymore.
I hang my metal pieces/barrel for days after being done...wash n dry then oil. hang them back up, and forget it until after work next day....
repeata
repeata
repeata
sooner or later she stops.........then it's time to put the rifle together~
marc n tomtom

 

[Scota4570]

Browned a gun using BC plumb brown yesterday. Worked great. Beautiful dark plumb brown. I went over it with cold blue to make it even darker. I oiled it well with rust preservative lanolin spray.

You, must heat it. Heating helps any chemical reaction along. If you don't heat it you get gray.

I use two propane torches, one in each hand, and a heat gun. Get the area good and hot hot enough to sizzle the damp cotton cloth. Presto-rust. If you have some resistant spots put a dab of dish soap on your PCPB applicator. BB size dab, we are not tyring to make suds.

If the heat causes the finish to start darkening and looking slick, stop heating. If the metal get a heat blue, stop. There is no danger to the low heat needed for BC Plumb Brown.

I checked my job this morning. Lots of after rust. Good! I never hurts and tends to add more depth of color. I figure on cleaning it seveal times with steel wool and oil. It is not a problem. I have skiped the oiling step and let it rust on purpose, for several days. Works good too.

The new BCPB formula uses nitric acid as the main rust forming agent. The old formula used mecuric chloride. The old one had less after rust. Since inhaling mecuric chloride steam causes brain damage, I'm happy they changed.

It is too dry and cold in my area to do real old fashoned rust browns. I don't want to make another sweat box. BC does a fine job, and in less than an hour. I see no reason to fight that. It works really well.

 

[Vaino]

Years ago I browned a bbl w/ BC in the basement w/o ventilation and didn't feel good for a month and probably am "brain damaged" to boot. Thanks for telling me.... because for all these years I've been "brain damaged and didn't know it. That mercuric chloride must be nasty stuff......Fred .... :grin:

 

[Scota4570]

Mecuric chloride is not a joke. Firstly I think the vast majority of "toxico-phobia" is fear mongering by ignorant prople. Mecuric chloride is different, it is a powerfull neruro and internal organ toxin. The damage is perminent and irreversable. I strongly suggest that it never be used in the home shop.

BTW, Mecury metal is not very dangerious. It is not readily absorbable. Mecuric Chloride is a different thing, as a salt form it is soluable in water and therefore you. Also heating it above 100* C volitilizes the mercury so you can easily absorb it in your lungs.

Zinc Chloride is a good subsititute in home blue and brown formulas.

 

[Vaino]

Then...why did BC use such a dangerous chemical in their browning solution? Pleading ignorance doesn't answer the question, but profit motives or corporate "laziness" do.

I'm allergic to all browning agents and LMF affects me minimally, but seeing I like browned hardware and bbls, just have to endure.

Haven't used BC products after experiencing ill affects from their mercuric chloride browning solution of which they didn't alert the user.....Fred

 

[Scota4570]

"Then...why did BC use such a dangerous chemical in their browning solution? Pleading ignorance doesn't answer the question, but profit motives or corporate "laziness" do."

I don't think anyone fully understood back then. I have no inside track on the mindset of BC, 30-years ago.

"Alergic"? Might be the mercury. I test highly allergic to thiomerisal (a mercery based perservative). I have also had serious reactions to mercury based homebrew browing solution. Probably an alergic reaction the mercury.

Now we know it is dangerious so, we change. No big deal, the new kind works well too. I buy it in the quart bottles. It is not worth the trouble to homebrew. IF it were to become hard to get, I'd just make my own.

 

[Zonie]

To all:

I don't know when (or if) Birchwood Casey ever changed their Plum Brown but it does not contain any mercury in any form today.

The Safety Data Sheet says it contains Sodium Nitrate, Potassium Chlorate, Copper Chloride and Nitric Acid.

A 15+ year old bottle of Plum Brown I have sitting on a shelf lists the same things and makes no mention of mercury in any form.

In the SDS, BC warns that it must be used out of doors or in a well ventilated area.

It also says getting PB in your eyes will cause permanent damage.

Like all of the chemicals and processes we use in gun building, they can be hazardous if not treated with respect.

This gun building hobby isn't for the young or for people who don't follow instructions.
https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/get...4145-Plum-Brown-Liquid-Barrel-Finish.pdf.aspx

 

[vulture]

This is just a side note, nothing more. Years ago when the Green River Rifle Works was up and going in Roosevelt, Utah, there was a chemist who was working in the oil drilling industry locally at the time and he made up an acid formula that was used by GRRW to brown their metal parts. I got a small bottle of this from the guy and used it on a several rifles I've built over the years, it was simple to use and gave excellent results, problem is he is no longer here, so product is unavailable, and I have no idea what the formula was, i.e. what type of acid used, and the other elements in the solution. For best results I would bead blast the metal parts, wrap them in paper towel while they were still in the blasting cabinet, then wear clean cotton gloves to protect the metal while working with it. I would simply apply a coat of the acid then let it sit for 24 hours and then apply another coat and wait. If it could be put into a humid environment it would work quicker, but had excellent results just working in my shop in the garage, and we live in a rather arid climate. I would keep treating the metal until the desired color was reached, and then I rubbed it carefully with 0000 steel wool, wiped it clean and then oiled it, never used a neutralizing agent, watched it to make sure there was no more rust forming, and insuring there was a light coating of oil, eventually wiped it down and put it away. I still own those rifles and the brown finish is still good, and I have never had any problems with further rust. I have a few ounces of this mixture left, just enough to do one more rifle, if it is still good, which I assume it is. I wish this guy would have patented and marketed this product, but not so, and GRRW didn't either, my loss. The last time I talked with Doc White he had a gallon jug of the stuff about 2/3rds full or better, enough he said to last him the rest of his life, wish I'd gotten a gallon of it way back when.

 

[lamarkeiko]

I was reading this thread on browning, and I thought it may be appropriate to relate my experience using Plumb Brown over 40 years ago.
The year was 1995, and I was building my first scratch built Hawken rifle. I heated all metal parts in the home oven, and then going to the kitchen sink, I swabbed the Plumb Brown on. I still remember all the steam and smell breathing in all the fumes. My nostrils had residue on the outside from breathing.
Some time later, don't remember exactly how long then. Maybe a month or more. I started having symptoms of a problem. Any time I would do anything physical, my head would start spinning around making it hard to stand. I was playing on a softball team at the time, and I had to quit.
I went to the doctor. I had Kaiser at the time. They did a brain ct scan and couldn't find any problems. I never wore glasses before, so I thought that might help. I didn't place any connection with the Plumb browning. The symptoms slowly subsided, and I didn't think much more about it for several years until I read an article in a black powder magazine talking about the breathing of Plumb Brown fumes and mercury. That was when the light bulb lit up, and I was sure of what caused my symptoms. I hear that once you get heavy metal exposure it can't be reversed. I don't know what the long term effects are, but that was over 40 years ago, and I am in good health now.

Lamar

 

[lamarkeiko]

My year was off, I meant 1975.

Lamar

 

[Zonie]

I think over the course of years, heavy metals do tend to wear off.

Not to alarm you but we have a draw between some small mountains here in Phoenix called "Dreamy Draw".

It's called Dreamy Draw because there used to be a mercury mine there and the fumes from processing the ore would effect the miners minds.

Also, the term "Mad as a Hatter" comes from the use of mercury in processing the felt that was popular for hats.

The mercury would effect the hat makers brains.

 

[Vaino]

My bad experience using BC browning agent was in 1976. I was responsible for the month long out of sorts feeling for not observing a common sense procedure of adequate ventilation.

A couple yrs ago I was in a hurry to reinstall a modified rear sight so heated the sight and applied LMF and my reaction to the fumes was the same as w/ the BC brown...only for a much shorter time. The brown was excellent but never repeated this.....Fred