Browning in different colors?

[renovato]

Howdy folks,

I've been trying a little experiment. My Austin & Halleck rifles are browned a little thin and light for my taste, so I decided to try darkening and evening out the brown with LMF browning solution. I ran the barrel through 3 rustings just to see how it would turn out. I ended up with a nice dark color, but it's has a strong reddish hue to it.

I've browned with the LMF solution before and never encountered this. Could it be because of browning over an existing finish? I was also tinkering with different humidity levels and rusting times.

The factory finish is light brown with golden tones. Is there a way to vary the color that is created with LMF? I've always gotten a nice chocolate brown when using it on bare steel. Does differing times and humidities give different shades of brown?

 

[ehoff]

I never heard of changing LMF browning solution to get diffrent color. I'd advise against experimenting as you could have a nasty and potentionally dangerous chemical reaction. One thing that affects browning is the metal to be browned, depending on the make up of the steel you may get a diffrent color. Also did you strip the factory browning or just apply the LMF over it? If you didn't strip the browning off you may get a slight variation in color. I've notice this on some parts I browned with B&C Plum brown and then used LMF to even them out.

 

[renovato]

I didn't strip the browning off when I applied the LMF. It was mostly just an experiment to see if I could darken and even out the thin factory browning, but it got me curious about being able to control the colors themselves.

The reddish hue looks really good next to the wood, but I don't really want to go to the trouble to strip and rebrown the entire gun. I was just wondering if there were perhaps different techniques to achieve the various golds and greys I've seen, to better match this and other guns I may work on in the future.

I'm curious as to what they used to get that nice color. The guns when new had the slight smell of vinegar to them. They say they use a "traditional" technique for browning them. Anyone have any ideas as to what they may have used?

I haven't worked with many browning solutions, so I don't know the colors they produce. I settled in to LMF on my second browning and have used it ever since.

 

[PitchyPine]

I`m curious about this browning also, is it like a bluing process.
My Blue Ridge rifle that i bought from Cabela`s has more of a blue appearence than brown. The other day when i was at a Cabela`s store there was a half doozen rifles like mine there and one of them was a rust color, very brown, soom of the others varied between full brown and more blue.
What gives?

 

[Old40Rod]

Did you do a final wash with very hot water? I did a pistol barrel recently with LMF, and did a final wash with boiling water... it darkened it to a nice chocolate brown.

 

[ehoff]

Well lets see, first off the easy one the difference between blueing and browning. Browning is a process of "controled rusting" Anything that will rust steel can be used to brown a barrel to some degree, it depends on the barrel material and the solution you use. Take some steel scraps and play, use a salt & water solution on one (this will give a muddy brown color) Full strength vingar on another, mustard, ketchup, pickel juice, browing solutions. All will cause rusting, when your done you must stop the process by using baking soda & hot water, boiling water, etc.

Blueing today uses chemical salts to produce the blue finish, but old time guns where also blued using by charcoal blueing, which involves putting the barrel into a burning charcoal fire, the result of which if done properly is a very dark rich blue. There is also a hotwater blueing, slowrust blueing (a releative of browning), temper blueing, etc.

The grey or pewter finish you see is sometimes called a "French Grey" If you do a search you will find diffrent techinques for doing this using anything from cold clue rubbed back with steel wool, bleech, naval jelly, electoless nickle plating, etc.

On stripping the browning, I once applied my LMF a little to heavy and when I went to card the barrel it removed all the browning! This is why they advise to put on a thin coat!

 

[PitchyPine]

Thanks for that info, so if i want to make my already browned barrel browner what do i have to do. Do i clean it with something then add one of what you mentioned and let it rust till it`s like i want then wash in hot water.

 

[ehoff]

If you want to even up a browned barrel I would try to use Laurel Mountian Forges Browning Solution. Its about the best on the market, easy to use and give consitant results, the other things mentioned will work, but like I said I'd play on some scrap steel before I used them on a barrel. or try some on the bottom of the barrel where no one will see if you don't like the results.

Take your barrel, give the inside a good heavy coat of grease. Make wooden plugs for the bore and vent/drum. Wipe the outside down with rubbing alcohol, when thats dry give it a thin coat of LMF browning solution. Hang her some place damp or in a damp box and follow the directions on the bottle about carding and recoating. When your done go buy a new box of baking soda, make a paste up with this and hot water coat the barrel, wash it off with hot, hot water, repeat this a couple times. Then give her a coat of oil, check the barrel every day to make sure its not still rusting. if it is give her another scrub down with baking soda and hot water.

Remember if you put on the LMF solution to heavy it will strip the browning off completely! A little on a swap goes a long way!

 

[PitchyPine]

Will give that some thought, thanks. :thumbsup:

 

[bramble]

I've considered getting a .32 GM drop in barrel for my TC Hawkin .50. The GM barrels come blued. What would be the procedure for browning a blued barrel?
bramble

 

[Razz]

ehoff
Thanks for the advice.

I had an old book on blueing and browning and remember one entry about using petroleum jelly on the steel. I started using vaseline after neutralizing with baking soda and a final rinse. I warmed the steel, applied the vaseline warmed it again with a heat gun and then let it set overnight. After a final wipe down I noticed a much deeper brown resulted than when I used oil as the final coat.

 

[renovato]

Did you do a final wash with very hot water? I did a pistol barrel recently with LMF, and did a final wash with boiling water... it darkened it to a nice chocolate brown.

I did it in very hot water from the tap. I've done that in the past when I've browned white steel and got a nice color. Perhaps I should have used boiling water on this one. I have always worried about boiling water turning it into rust blue though so I just used hot tap water.

 

[renovato]

To add to Ehoff's post, I've done rust bluing also. It's a lot like rust browning, except the metal is boiled before carding. This turns the oxide layer a nice bluish black. I have only use Express Blue so far but it makes for a gorgeous satin finish that's more durable than any hot blue I've seen.

 

[Old40Rod]

Thanks for that info, so if i want to make my already browned barrel browner what do i have to do. Do i clean it with something then add one of what you mentioned and let it rust till it`s like i want then wash in hot water.

On the pistol barrel and a knife blade I did, I put them in a rectangular metal cake pan, poured in the boiling water and mixed in some baking soda. Both came out a much deeper chocolate brown than other items I have browned. Obviously you would have to figure out something other than a cake pan for doing a rifle barrel, like the tub perhaps.

 

[bramble]

Build a shallow box (2x4's work well) and line it with one continuous piece of aluminum foil.
bramble

 

[ricklandes]

I have used the Plinkerton rust bluing on several small arms and thought a couple of points might be of interest. I had done my boiling (outside in a large square mild steel pan with top and part rack)prior to carding in distilled water (per instructions provided). I had forgotten to pick some up for a piece in mid-process and it needed to be boiled. I tried water from a local artesian well and boiled the parts as usual. After the time period (about 10 minutes at a rolling boil), I removed the parts rack. I thought I would faint. All the parts had a limestone powder finish. I thought I would card as normal and see the damages.

The finish after carding was one of the most consistent velvet satin blue...much better than the norm. I now do this is for all my rust blues. I believe the limestone/mineral deposits help equally neutralize the acids.

Another note, with blueing and brownings I find that leaving the pieces 24 to 48 hours prior to oil treating results in a "tuffer" overall finish.
Thanks for letting me share.

 

[ricklandes]

Sorry for the post directed to bramble. This was my first to the group and as per my modus operanti, I screwed the first attempt up :redface:

 

[renovato]

Hi Rick and welcome aboard! Don't worry too much about where you drop in a post, as long as it gets in.

The mineral water idea is interesting. I might have to give it a try sometime. My first bluing attempts didn't turn out well because I was using tap water. I bought a small deionizer unit that was designed for use with exotic aquariums. The purified water really made a difference in the finish.

When I first got into rust bluing, I bought Pilkintons and Express Blue. I tried both on a few pieces of scrap and settled on Express blue because it could be done in a single session and I didn't need to start water boiling every few hours. Boiling water for a pistol is no big deal, but getting my 40 inch long tank up to temperature to do rifles is enough of a hassle to make it not worth it.

 

[ricklandes]

I am fortunate in that I have a pair of these large propane burners mounted in tri-legged stands. These put out high BTU's and boil the neutralizing water very fast. I had not ever tried the express blue. I am wondering is the single finish as durable as the mutli-coated pinkerton rust finish.

I am never too concerned with speed as I am with quality of the job I have finished so that is my motive with this line of query
Thanks for the sharing and the welcome!

 

[Moose_Meat]

Brown'n the old fashion way.

Brown'n a barrel with rust is easy to do, tho this proceedure is rather time-consume'n most fella's find the final "finish" well worth the extra time involved.

INGREDIENTS for "modern-old-time" brown'n (say "what":?: ) are:....

1- box of plywood or other suitable boards, and 'bout 12" square and long enuff for a barrel/breech-plug, stand'n upright, and with a hinged door on the side.

1- 40-50 watt light bulb fastened to the top of the box (on the inside ) when box is stand'n "on end".

1- small pan of "water" located at the "bottom" of the box.

1- bottle of "vinegar".

1- pad of #0000 steel-wool.

1- small can of "boiled linseed oil".

COOK"N TIME:.....

Throughly "oil" (with good gun-oil) the bore of the barrel, then "plug all openings" (for and aft) of the barrel.

Wipe the (outside of the) barrel down throughly with vinegar, and placed in the "box" with the "light on".

Remove from "box" after the first 24 hours, and rub with #0000 steel-wool, then place the barrel back into the "box".

Repeat proceedure "as needed" for the desired "brown" (rust).

After the desired "brown" has ben reached, rub the barrel down "vigorously" with a cotton cloth and small amounts of boiled linseed oil,... (when "dry", this will prevent further "rust'n").

Yore barrel is now "brown-finished", and if you have applyed the same proceedure to the "hardware" for yore rifle, at the same time as the "barrel",... ALL metal should be "gorgeous"!!

Good luck!!.... the above recipe requires a period of 4-5 days to complete, and is definitly well worth the time to do properly!!