Browning vs Bluing?

[mike3132]

I'm curious to why so many like browning vs bluing? Is this a period thing? Does any arms maker offer a browned model?

I personally like a good bluing on my rifles but see a lot of you seem to prefer brown......comments?

 

[Bill Hall]

Well, it can be a period thing, depending on how historically correct you want to be if recreating a specific gun. But I do prefer a browned finish over blued for a number of reasons.

1. More matted than blued, gives a non-glare finish, especially a heavy brown. Perfect for hunting in the sunny southwest.

2. Less polishing needed for prep-work.

3. Very durable, again, especially with a heavy brown. Holds oil better.

4. Just looks more rustic (muzzleoderish). To me, a shiny blue looks tacky.

I like to boil my browned parts, gives the gun a nice muted blue/black color. These are just my preferences. Bill

 

[Black Hand]

...browning vs bluing? Is this a period thing? Does any arms maker offer a browned model?

Yes and yes.

 

[jdkerstetter]

...I do prefer a browned finish over blued for a number of reasons.....

I like to boil my browned parts, gives the gun a nice muted blue/black color.

That's funny Bill. In your first statement you state you prefer brown and then in your last you say you boil your browned parts. Once boiled they are no longer browned, but rust blueded. :wink:

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Bill Hall]

Yep, you're right :redface: . I got into the habit of calling a rust blued finish a browned finish, mostly because they are nearly identical. I just add one more simple step, but don't go to all the effort that some do to get that perfect beautiful rust blue. I guess for me, it's that texture that discerns a "rust" finish from that factory modern blue finish, not so much the tint of the finished color. :surrender: Bill

 

[mccarthy.tf]

OK follow on question. For which periods are rust brown, rust blued and charcoal bluing correct?

 

[necchi]

It's about $$.
What many like today is what we where raised with in the factory CF guns, a commercial hot blue.
And while a guy can set himself up dto do a hot blue the investment in proper tanks and chemicals is several hundred dollars, to send a barrel in to have it blued can be 100-150.

The several over the counter chemical bluing's out there are really just a chemical mask of copper sulfate reacting with the iron content of the steel barrels and while they look nice for the first few days, a copper washed blueing can be singled out by the smell of the barrel and they just plain don't last very long. Some like to use them because they can be rubbed out to leave a worn look to metal parts,, but it's still a temporary copper wash. And if you have a rubbed out worn look, you don't have bluing do ya?
I learned along time ago that the over the counter stuff is cheap and fake, I don't care for the stuff.

New factory rifles have a Hot bluing and look nice, but if you've spent a sunny day at the range shooting for score you'll soon get tired of the reflection and heat waves coming off that nice shiny hot blued barrel.

I like the control and options I have with browning or the boiled brown blue/black shades you can get.
It's something I can do at home and it's affordable

 

[Stophel]

In the 18th century, most guns seem to have had NO finish on the iron parts at all. Iron seems to be more rust resistant than steel, by the way. Most are "browned" now only because they are 250 years old.

Some German and other European guns had their barrels temper blued, which is simply from heat (though it was surely difficult getting the right heat evenly over the whole barrel!). It is pretty, shiny, and bright, but easily rubs off with your fingers. Probably many guns which are now "bright" were temper blued to begin with, but the bluing is just rubbed off.

Charcoal bluing was done in the 18th century on some gun barrels. It is basically a deposit of blue-gray scale on the barrel. And as with temper blue, locks would be ruined by the heat, so they were left bright.

Rust bluing. Well. I don't know for sure. It seems RARE in the 18th century, but apparently did exist. I have photos of two German rifles, both Prussian, one from about 1700, the other from about 1720 or so, and the barrels, locks, and all iron hardware are obviously (to me) to be rust blued. I have also seen a few locks (in photos only, I'm afraid) that APPEAR to be purposefully blued. Rust bluing creates a satiny dark blue gray color and is by all accounts very durable. There are fast rust blues (Belgian blue) and slow rust blues. I have practiced with the fast rust blue, but I will never have the patience for slow rust blue. Locks and all iron gun parts can be rust blued because no high heat is required, only getting as hot as boiling water.

The various types of chemical blues that we are more familiar with today came about during the 19th century.

Browning. Browning was done in the 18th century for damascus twist gun barrels. I don't know that it was really done on regular iron barrels at that time. It seems to have become popular in the 19th century, but personally, I don't know if the browning on so many 19th century guns was intentional or if it's just from 150 years of handling! :grin:

 

[Stophel]

In the 18th century, most guns seem to have had NO finish on the iron parts at all. Iron seems to be more rust resistant than steel, by the way. Most are "browned" now only because they are 250 years old.

Some German and other European guns had their barrels temper blued, which is simply from heat (though it was surely difficult getting the right heat evenly over the whole barrel!). It is pretty, shiny, and bright, but easily rubs off with your fingers. Probably many guns which are now "bright" were temper blued to begin with, but the bluing is just rubbed off.

Charcoal bluing was done in the 18th century on some gun barrels. It is basically a deposit of blue-gray scale on the barrel. And as with temper blue, locks would be ruined by the heat, so they were left bright.

Rust bluing. Well. I don't know for sure. It seems RARE in the 18th century, but apparently did exist. I have photos of two German rifles, both Prussian, one from about 1700, the other from about 1720 or so, and the barrels, locks, and all iron hardware are obviously (to me) to be rust blued. I have also seen a few locks (in photos only, I'm afraid) that APPEAR to be purposefully blued. Rust bluing creates a satiny dark blue gray color and is by all accounts very durable. There are fast rust blues (Belgian blue) and slow rust blues. I have practiced with the fast rust blue, but I will never have the patience for slow rust blue. Locks and all iron gun parts can be rust blued because no high heat is required, only getting as hot as boiling water.

The various types of chemical blues that we are more familiar with today came about during the 19th century.

Browning. Browning was done in the 18th century for damascus twist gun barrels. I don't know that it was really done on regular iron barrels at that time. It seems to have become popular in the 19th century, but personally, I don't know if the browning on so many 19th century guns was intentional or if it's just from 150 years of handling! :grin:

 

[jdkerstetter]

We're cool Bill. I much prefer the textured rust blue finish myself....and like you don't go for perfection, as few original were perfect. :grin:

Thawk, If ya don't mind, fill out your profile a little. I much prefer to know who I'm giving advice to....and some others do to. :wink:

I prepared a reply but as I posted it I see Chris beat me to the punch so retracted it to edit any duplicated information.

I'll add that I try to copy what "is", as do many other builders.

As necchi pointed out, cost plays a factor. Browning and rust bluing requires time and labor. As Chris pointed out, todays chemical or "tank bluing" was't done 200 years ago but is easy for factory producers to do today.

The charcoal bluing Chris was referring to? You can have it done but you will have to open your wallet wide to get it as it is more time and labor intensive, as well as problematic. Packing a barrel in a trench lined with coals and taking care not to scale the bore..... :shake:

Hope that helps. A lot of what is known is speculative. Perhaps if you could be more specific as to what is proper for a particular kind of gun, like English, Colonial, Hawken, etc.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[M. De Land]

I have hot acid blued for about 25 years and still have all the equipment set up but as of the last ten years or so I have gone exclusively to cold rust bluing and browning. It is time consuming but the best blue and brown quality methodology devised by man .
I like the colors and surface textures better and it is far and away the most durable of oxide finishes and nearly as durable as phosphate (Parkerizing) which amount to plating, finishes.
I do not suffer file marks or sanding rings in any of my brown or blue jobs but that is just a personal, anal prejudice, I picked up along the way against the apparent "thats goodnuff" attitude by the original builders, in my opinionated mind . Mike D.

 

[George]

Browning was done in the 18th century for damascus twist gun barrels. I don't know that it was really done on regular iron barrels at that time.

From Cleator, 1789, discussing the manufacture of barrels in England:

The last operation is that of colouring the barrel, previous to which it is polished with fine emery and oil, until it presents to the eye throughout its whole length, and in whatever direction we observe it, a perfectly smooth, equal, and splendid surface. Formerly, barrels were coloured by exposing them to a degree of heat which produced an elegant blue tinge; but as this effect arises from a degree of calcinatiion taking place upon the surface of the metal, the inside of the barrel always suffered by undergoing the same change. This, therefore, added to the painful sensation excited in the eye by looking along a barrel so coloured, has caused the practice of blueing to be disused for some time past. Instead of it, barrels are now browned, as it is termed. To do this, the barrel is rubbed over with aqua fortis or spirit of salt, diluted with water, and laid by until a complete coat of rust is formed upon it; a little oil is then applied; and the surface being rubbed dry, it is polished by means of a hard brush, and bees wax.

As an end-user, I much prefer browning. I hate having to oil a gun down just because I picked it up for a moment. Any rusty fingerprints on my guns just makes them look better.

Spence

 

[M. De Land]

I should also mention that any bluing, blacking or browning is only as good as the prefinish.
Some of the finest metal finishing ever done has been accomplished on double rifles and shot guns which are meticulously struck (draw filed), sanded and even rotten stoned to a fluid steel finish that looks like it really is liquid in bright sun light that reveals all. All scratches, waves or ringing is completely worked out.
Most of the blue/blacking solutions have some degree of either nitric or hydrochloric,or both, acid that provides the rapid oxidation and texturing of surface metal particularly in a warm and humid environment.
I like to add both sand and bead blasting to the regimen and will get a black or brown coat the first time over. This sand and bead blast treatment really works well with the LMF solution which seems to hesitate on really smooth steel.
Here are some examples of the finish. I usually use 6 cycles.




This is the finish after striken and all file marks removed to 400 grit before garnet sand and then glass bead blasting.
Mike D.

 

[izzyjoe]

I too like browned ML's, but I have a friend that has a T/C Renegade that he reblued. He told me that he spent 25 hours prepping the barrel. It's the nicest rifle I've ever seen, the bluing looks like it is very deep, and there's not a flaw in the metal that I can find. Of course he's a very good gunsmith,and rifle builder, and it looks like he put a lot of time and effort into it. It just all depends on what you like.

 

[tenngun]

Bluing and browning were both done before guns were invented>boiling an acid brown gives a fire blue,or blackened.Wraping a barrel in urine soaked cloth was known to give a deep brown finish.Most guns were in the 'white'.A gun in use will quickly brown and I spect most guys in the woods colored shiny as soon as possible,blue and in the white guns were transproted to redezvous.This blue would have been a boiled brown that makes it a brownish black.Ilike just a good cold brown, but my time frame is 1800-1820.White guns are rightfor any timebefore this and still right after