Buckshot

[Hawk78]

Unfortunately there are many misconceptions, and many variables with buckshot. Used within its limits, nothing can beat it. If a slug is just as effective... well you probably weren't a very good shotgun shooter to begin with. Buckshot is shot. It is best used with a shotgun with no sights, and is best used in situations with moving targets and or thick cover. Now I'm not advocating shooting sprinting deer, but in the best spots deer rarely stop. Same with thick cover. If you can't see the eyeballs, then you can't positively identify the target. But if you do find yourself in a swamp, or creek bottom with downed trees and brush in every direction, and a deer comes trotting along at a good pace, then buckshot is the best tool for the job. It is not the tool for sitting on the edge of a corn field. It's my opinion that most people do not hunt the heaviest of cover, so most do not understand.

Patterning buckshot is just like shot. You want multiple pellets in the vitals of your deer. I do not advocate head shots, but I do like the idea of the base of the neck, same as shooting turkey. With an adequate pattern you are sure to get some in the neck, some in the lungs, and a good chance of hitting something big enough to drop the animal on the spot. The traditional lung shot works too. I think where people run into trouble is from not patterning their gun, taking a long shot, and only getting a single pellet through the lungs. This wouldn't be good. Put 3-4 pellets in the lungs, and that deer won't be far at all, probably closer than a normal rifle shot.

Since this forum does claim to ban firearms inventions post 1865, I'm not sure I should talk about choke. I do see a lot of mention of jug chokes on this forum though. I'll simply say that choke can have a monumental difference in the tightness of your pattern. Assuming a cylinder bore, you are far more limited. Even with that, the old 1" per yard rule, just throw that out the window. Even in modern shotguns, a poor load could be twice that, and a good load can pattern WAY tighter. Looking at your picture, that's a spread about 12", and you say that is 17 yards. That is not a horrible pattern, but you can tighten that if you wish. There are a ton of variables in your load to mess with.

The shot quality is one easy area. Soft lead makes horrible buckshot. The basic swaged antimony buckshot is ok, but not the best. Some hard swaged shot, like from Ballistic products is pretty good. The very finest buckshot that you can get can only be made. Clip on wheel weights is an ideal alloy, something semi-hard, ideally with some arsenic in it. The key is to drop the shot straight out of the mold into a bucket of ice water. Cold tap water works nearly as well. Alternatively you can oven heat treat the shot later. Doing this significantly hardens the shot, without sacrificing weight, or making them brittle. For example, pure lead is about 5 BHN, swaged buckshot about 12 BHN, BPI super buck about 15 BHN, and heat treated cast shot can be 25 to over 30 BHN. The harder they are, the rounder they stay during firing. Round shot flies straighter.

Buffer is one area I don't see messed with too often in muzzleloaders. Something like cream of wheat should work better than modern plastic buffers with regards to fouling. The trick I've found is to pour your powder in, and ram your over powder wads down first. Then only start another wad, a thin overshot card works well, start it only 3" or so into the barrel. Then you can drop your shot in, making sure it stacks properly. At this point you can pour in buffer, while lightly tapping the barrel, until the shot is covered. You want the buffer in the gaps between the shot, not mixed in, and not underneath. Gentle taps on the side, not on the butt of the gun. Finally add overshot, and ram down fully.

Speaking of stacking, shot size can make a difference. Some stack better than others. I often find stacks of 2's work great. To find, simply divide your bore diameter by 2. I

 

[SDSmlf]

Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated. is not there a simple process to allow me to remove the flat sprue?

Do you have a tumbler? Or for a second choice, vibratory brass cleaner? Either will knock down the sprue, just a matter of time.

 

[Hawk78]

Do you have a tumbler? Or for a second choice, vibratory brass cleaner? Either will knock down the sprue, just a matter of time.

No, but I believe I need to order me one very soon

 

[Hawk78]

Do you have a tumbler? Or for a second choice, vibratory brass cleaner? Either will knock down the sprue, just a matter of time.

I will purchase me a decent tumbler, smelt down some wheel weights, cast me some .319, tumble them, and be good to go with my chrome lined bores I believe? I have a jar of buffer, and will even try some jiffy muffin mix.

 

[SDSmlf]

Look at rock tumblers. Personally have found Lee molds to have the most minimal sprue and easiest to reduce or eliminate. Sprues on buckshot and/or soft lead will really open patterns in my limited experience. If you can find it (Ballistic Products for example), harder than pure lead swaged buckshot will tighten groups, at least in my experience.

 

[Hawk78]

Look at rock tumblers. Personally have found Lee molds to have the most minimal sprue and easiest to reduce or eliminate. Sprues on buckshot and/or soft lead will really open patterns in my limited experience. If you can find it (Ballistic Products for example), harder than pure lead swaged buckshot will tighten groups, at least in my experience.

My experience too as of today. I tried the cast buck without success. I already have a LEE .319 mould. BPI is out of all the good stuff. So I will get me a rock tumbler and make my own. I got access to all the wheel weights a man could ever shoot.

 

[SDSmlf]

I got access to all the wheel weights a man could ever shoot.

As long as they are not the current zinc type you will be ok.

 

[megasupermagnum]

@Hawk78, I'm not sure why I can't read your post on this thread, but I see your questions in my email.

For whatever reason, Ballistic Products is all sold out of their superbuck right now, and I do not know why. Since you are casting with Lee molds, there is not much sprue to remove. I sometimes run mine through the Harbor Freight rock tumbler, but this is more so they stack easier in a shell. I'm not sure the tiny flat does any harm to patterns, as even very hard cast shot will have dents on them from firing.

Clip on wheel weights are about as good as it gets for buckshot alloy. Not stick on wheel weights, which are just about pure lead, and are great for balls for rifles. There are things you can add to your pure lead, Linotype is a good one. I would use clip on wheel weights straight, if you can get them. Make sure to water drop, or heat treat them. There is no drawbacks, no reason not to, and it nearly doubles the hardness. Quenching shot only hardens certain alloys. I've heard that arsenic is the key, which is found in clip on wheel weights. I've found that linotype will harden as well, which should not have arsenic, but does have antimony. Lead and tin only alloys, as well as pure lead will NOT quench harden in the slightest.

There is absolutely no danger in shooting lead buckshot in any gun, even from tight chokes. There are exceptions to anything, but I would have no issue shooting buckshot through your extra full jug choke. Whether or not your bore is chrome lined makes no difference.

I've heard of people using muffin mix for buffer. I'm not particularly fond of it, because I know what similar stuff, especially flour, can do to chamber pressures in modern shotguns. That isn't to say it is dangerous in a muzzleloader, but I wouldn't be running hairy 120 grain powder charges with 1 3/4 ounce of shot (unless it was a 10 gauge or bigger), when using muffin mix or flour. I've used modern plastic buffer in my muzzleloader, PSB to be specific. I didn't have any problems, and it did tighten the pattern. Maybe over time the plastic might cause problems, but for a couple shots, fouling was normal.

The first post in this thread shows what is known as the Skychief load. It has a fiber wad on top of the shot. Some have great luck with this. No matter what, I think the general idea is that you want a clean release from the shot from the back, and you want the overshot to clear the shot without disturbing it. The idea with the Skychief load is the hard powder cards release from the back of the shot just fine, and the lubed fiber wad over the shot travels a distance with the shot, before falling through the pattern. In my own testing for turkey loads, I found thin overshot cards did not work well. I even found that I needed a dry nitro card over the powder, not lubed. A dry nitro card comes apart into thin paper, and does not disturb the shot. While not quite the Skycheif, my turkey load wadding was in this order. Powder, 2 dry nitro cards, shot, lubed nitro card (with tiny hole drilled in center). While it seems too simple, it far surpassed traditional loadings.

 

[megasupermagnum]

I should qualify my earlier statements about range. I think some people get into trouble trying to push buckshot to extreme ranges, sometimes 70-80 yards. And there is always a drunken idiot who will shoot at anything that moves. Buckshot works very well at close range, but 40 yards is a realistic maximum, 50 yards if you really know your gun. That is often seen as a negative, but it can also be a positive. Buckshot will not travel all that far past the animal. It will obviously go far if you shoot into the air, but aiming flat, or downward to the ground, I have not seen where buck shot will go 200 yards, usually less. I've seen a single round ball ricochet across the ground out to about our 600 yard "backstop", which is nothing but a farm field with a hill at the end.

 

[Hawk78]

I should qualify my earlier statements about range. I think some people get into trouble trying to push buckshot to extreme ranges, sometimes 70-80 yards. And there is always a drunken idiot who will shoot at anything that moves. Buckshot works very well at close range, but 40 yards is a realistic maximum, 50 yards if you really know your gun. That is often seen as a negative, but it can also be a positive. Buckshot will not travel all that far past the animal. It will obviously go far if you shoot into the air, but aiming flat, or downward to the ground, I have not seen where buck shot will go 200 yards, usually less. I've seen a single round ball ricochet across the ground out to about our 600 yard "backstop", which is nothing but a farm field with a hill at the end.

I shot a doe at 50 paces last season running broadside (full speed) with the extra-full jug choked gun with this load: 120 gns 2f Goex, 2 over-powder-cards, 1 cushion wad, 15-00 swaged buckshot with equal volume BPI buffer, 1 over-shot-card. I aimed 1 foot in front of her and had around 5 or 6 hit the vitals. She ran about 15 yards and dropped dead. God, I love my beagles and muzzle loader shotguns!

 

[Gun Tramp]

The first post in this thread shows what is known as the Skychief load. It has a fiber wad on top of the shot.

The components in #1 of this thread are not exactly a Skychief load but resemble one due to the fiber over-shot wad; the exact Skychief recipe is pinned in the Traditional Muzzleloader Hunting section. Every gun behaves differently and in my experience, the Skychief load isn't always the best performer.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't know what that buckshot load would be good for,

Zombies, of course. Everybody knows that.

 

[Hawk78]

a PUMKIN BALL / SLUG, RULLS!!

I bought me some .715 balls and .015 lubed patches for my improved cylinder barrel of my side by side shotgun. It is amazingly accurate at 25 yards. I tried 5 of them yesterday. I just have to get my elevation correct with the guns 2 bead sighting system. If I had 6 with me yesterday I would had hit the bull because I know pretty much how to hold it from learning from the first 5 shots. Very cool load, and definitely a deer dropper. I will go out today with the whole bag and dial it in at 25 and 50 yards. I'm not even concerned with trying it any further because I know it will drop a lot and lose velocity too much.

 

[nhmoose]

00 buck is legal for deer in NH when using a muzzleloader?

Deer Hunting Regulations
Hunting Hours: ½ hour before sunrise to ½ hour after sunset.

Deer must be registered at the closest open registration station within 24 hours. Deer must be accompanied and registered by the person who took the deer. See Deer/Turkey Registration Stations for a listing of stations. A conservation officer may request to see the head and hide of a deer taken under an archery license within 48 hours of killing. It is unlawful to hunt deer with a rimfire firearm. No shotgun ammunition, other than slugs or 00 or larger buckshot, may be used to take deer. Exception: Buckshot is prohibited for taking deer in Auburn, Chester, Greenland, Newington, Portsmouth, and Stratham.

Muzzleloader Season
To hunt deer during the muzzleloader season, a person needs a Regular N.H. Hunting License, plus a Muzzleloader License. A muzzleloader is defined as a single barrel, single shot firearm (40 caliber or greater) that can only be loaded from the muzzle. Only one deer may be taken using a muzzleloader or crossbow with the firearm tag during the muzzleloader season. No separate muzzleloader tag is issued. No person shall have in possession, while taking deer during the muzzleloader season, more than one muzzleloading rifle or one muzzleloading handgun. In NH a muzzleloader is defined as a firearm—therefore a felon may not possess a muzzleloader.

This from Deer Hunting Regulations | eRegulations

So yes in permitted towns

 

[Gun Tramp]

Same .69 cal. but with a lubed leather wad in place of the 1/8" nitro wad. The .380" balls are soft lead from a Lee mould and total 1.1 oz. (81 grains ea.):

Sixty grains Fg put five where they belonged but we're down to a pretty low pellet count now. And darn it, two pellets touching waste one strike on the game:

Like in real estate, it's all about wads, wads, wads. Brit could have this one fine-tuned in no time.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Only six!
What's ten and 80-90 gn like!

 

[Gun Tramp]

Let's make sure I understand; to get more pellets on the paper, add more pellets to the load?

 

[Historian]

If you are shooting a .69 caliber smooth bore, you really need to bump up the powder charge to about 100 grains of 1Fg. Personally I would ditch the 1Fg. You are not getting very much velocity. I gave up shooting 1Fg in my 10 ga's after I chrono graphed the loads. Very poor velocity. Now 2Fg makes a big difference. In my 20 ga's I now stick to 3Fg.

What Britsmoothy is saying is go from 6 pellets to about 10 pellets and up the powder charge to 80-90 grains. If you have 2Fg you should really try that out.

 

[Gun Tramp]

Thanks, Historian. But, in #36 I pointed out that I was interested in suitable small game loads, which Brit is most helpful with. No plans of "ditching" the Fg. I came by a lifetime supply and use it with good results in this gun.

 

[SDSmlf]

Thanks, Historian. But, in #36 I pointed out that I was interested in suitable small game loads, which Brit is most helpful with. No plans of "ditching" the Fg. I came by a lifetime supply and use it with good results in this gun.

If you can live with results using what you have, great. I have a lot of extra stuff that just didn’t work as I planned or hoped.