Building a Lyman GPR Kit, a few Questions

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Flash Pan Dan

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I am considering building my first rifle from a kit. The Lyman GPR kit seems to be a good place to start. I was thinking of a 54 caliber percussion rifle. I have read some posts here which advise folks to replace the brass screws with No. 3 wood screws and to consider buying a Davis replacement trigger for it. I have a couple of questions for those of you who have already built one of these kits.

1. Do they leave enough wood on the stock to allow for a good, even, close fit?
2. I am aware of the difficulties of disassembling a lock that uses coil main spring. Is the lock worth taking the trouble to tune? In other words, when tuned correctly is it a good lock? Or should I just replace it from the start?
3. Can the factory stampings on the barrel be draw filed off?
4. Is it feasible to draw file a taper in the barrel from nose cap to muzzle? Will it affect the under rib installation? Not a great deal of taper I just want to make it less muzzle heavy.

Are there any other precautions of which I should be aware? If the topic has been discussed before I would glad to research it out in the forum history files.

Thank You.
 
The Lyman GPR is a good starter. It does not just go together itself, so it gives you some things to think about as you build. But, it's not so difficult that you should feel any serious trepidation.

I have read some posts here which advise folks to replace the brass screws with No. 3 wood screws . . . . .

I can't for the life of me recall any brass screws on a GPR. :confused: I think you may be refering to the small screws that retain the escutcions. The ones that come with the kits are horrible. They break off just at the heads under any stress at all and the heads are a terrible fit to just about any screwdriver you may apply to them. So, yes, toss them and replace them with a slightly larger screw of good quality. If you must use the kit screws, enlarge the pilot holes ever so slightly before putting them in. Also, put a small bit of lubricant on the threads before starting them. They will work if you do those two things, but most first time builders don't realize it and end up breaking the heads off at least one screw. I have a kit that I "rescued" at a gun show that had been thrown together with no fitting of any of the parts whatsoever. Four of those screws were broken off. :(


and to consider buying a Davis replacement trigger for it.

The Davis trigger seems to be becoming a popular fix for the GPR trigger. The GPR trigger, when used as a set trigger only, is an ok trigger. The trigger pull unset using the front trigger only can be so heavy as to be near impossible to pull. The pull on that trigger will not be improved much by tuning the trigger, oiling the trigger, or just about anything else you might do to it. The problem is the geometric relationship between the front trigger hinge pin and the sear bar of the lock. The pivot point (hinge pin) of the front trigger is way to far forward of the sear bar. It's just a badly positioned lever. Your finger becomes the 50 pound kid on the teeter totter trying to lift the 90 pound kid on the other end! :shocked2: How bad varys from kit to kit. You can only move the trigger just so much since the trigger inlet is directly related to the trigger guard inlet. Fortunately, the tang bolt does not screw into the trigger plate as it does on most guns. Rather, it screws into a nut that is separatley inlet independent of the trigger plate. That means that you can move the position of the trigger back to obtain a better pull, but as said above, it could alter the position of the pre-inlet trigger guard.

1. Do they leave enough wood on the stock to allow for a good, even, close fit?

Yes, there is spare wood. You might have to work on the fit of the butt plate. Just depends on how picky you are.

2. I am aware of the difficulties of disassembling a lock that uses coil main spring. Is the lock worth taking the trouble to tune? In other words, when tuned correctly is it a good lock? Or should I just replace it from the start?

All four of the GPR kits I have worked on have had fine locks. I have not tuned any of them and have not felt a need to. There may be some improvement to be had by tuning but it just has not been necessary on any that I've seen.

3. Can the factory stampings on the barrel be draw filed off?

Sure, but you will leave a pretty good belly in the metal. Won't be pretty! :shocked2:

4. Is it feasible to draw file a taper in the barrel from nose cap to muzzle? Will it affect the under rib installation? Not a great deal of taper I just want to make it less muzzle heavy.

You could, but really, it might end up looking a bit odd with the taper starting that far forward. The under rib will be a problem. One that I built came with the rib soldered on. The more recent ones all seem to be screwed on. If the rib is screwed on, you can taper all sides of the barrel uniformly and then taper the sides of the rib a bit to match the bottom flat after tapering all the flats. I recommend against doing this for several reasons. First, if you taper it enough to significantly reduce the weight at the muzzle, it's probably going to look a bit funny. Tapered barrels can look very nice but it's the breech to muzzle taper that is aesthetically pleasing. It will also reduce the depth of the front sight dovetail. You can file a sight to fit I suppose, but it's just another thing to deal with. Lastly, the .54 GPR with it's 15/16ths barrel is not all that muzzle heavy. Most who shoot them find, like myself, that they balance rather well.

Are there any other precautions of which I should be aware?

First thing you should do is try-fit all the inlet parts and look for misplaced, out of line or over sized inletting. This has cropped up as a problem with many of the recent kits. If the inletting is way off, send the stock back to Lyman and request a new one.

Plan on replacing the front sight with a narrower blade or spend some time with a file and file it narrower. That's a personal pref of mine, but I find near universal agreement that the front sight blade is way too wide.

When you are satisfied that the parts inletting is ok, you first off want to do any fitting of the tang to breech plug hook that may be needed. If fitting is needed, it needs to be done slowly and carefully. I did over do one once and was able to fix it but metal is like wood, it's a lot harder to put it back than to remove it carefully! :haha:

Once that fit is perfect, clean up the matching faces and epoxy them together and then proceed to fit them to the wood. Be sure that the lock matches up to the nipple or touch hole. Most likely the parts will be over inlet and you will need to do some bedding where the tang recoils against the wood and under the tang itself. A bit of heat from a torch will allow you to separate your epoxy joint later.

And, finally, if you are determined to start right off replacing the trigger ($50) and the lock ($100 ++) plus messing with the barrel taper, you might want to reconsider the gpr kit in favor of a parts set from one of the major suppliers that have those features built in such as a high grade lock, tapered barrel, high grade set trigger and the inletting to go with them.

Good luck with it whatever you decide.
 
The parts usually fit the wood very nicely. The only exception I've heard of is a few of the GPR kits breech tang slots have been oversized or offset. Most if not all of the people who have seen this problem have been able to have their kits replaced by the seller.

There is nothing wrong with the lock provided in the kits. It is generally fast and sure. I wouldn't consider replacing the Percussion lock.

The Lyman GPR set trigger is another matter.
Although it works quite well, setting the rear "trigger" to the "set" condition can put a deep groove in your finger. The spring is way stronger than it needs to be.
Davis supplies a replacement set trigger that will work with the GPR and as with all Davis Set Triggers they are superb.

Yes, you can draw file the markings off of the barrel if you choose to do so.
They are moderately deep so there is quite a bit of filing to do to accomplish this.

IMO it is not feasible to draw file the barrel into a tapered style. I'm not saying it can't be done because it most certainly can be.

What I'm saying is when drawfiling the amount of material removed with each pass is very small. Maybe 0.0005 or less.
At that rate it would take around 125 strokes to remove 1/16". That times 8 flats equals over 1000 strokes.
If the muzzle area was 12 inches long and the size of the octagon was reduced by 1/8" (1000 strokes) the weight reduction of that one foot section would be a little over 5/8 of a pound.

While this is a notable amount it would take a whole lot of energy to achieve it but I must admit it would make the gun balance better.
 
1. Do they leave enough wood on the stock to allow for a good, even, close fit?
From what I have seen of them No. It is a Assembly Kit, not a Parts set you build. It should need very little inletting. Most I have seen were slightly over-inlet, thus a good metal to wood fit was not obtained. However, considering the price of it, it is still well worth the price.


2. I am aware of the difficulties of disassembling a lock that uses coil main spring. Is the lock worth taking the trouble to tune? In other words, when tuned correctly is it a good lock? Or should I just replace it from the start?
Not really difficult when you have done it 200 times. :wink: You don't tune a Percussion lock. (IMHO) You can polish things up a tad & make them a lil smoother operating. But from what I have seen of the GPR precussion locks, oil it & use it & it will serve you well.I would definately not change the lock.


3. Can the factory stampings on the barrel be draw filed off?
Not recommended. I feel they are too deep & it will be noticeable unless you are Exceptionally good with a file & exceptionally lucky. A browned barrel would hide it best.


4. Is it feasible to draw file a taper in the barrel from nose cap to muzzle? Will it affect the under rib installation? Not a great deal of taper I just want to make it less muzzle heavy.
Only if you plan on filing for the next 3 months. What you will file off will basically make no dif at all in weight, of if you did take off enough to make a dif, it will be one weird looking barrel. It is a muzzle heavy rifle as it is a straight barrel, etc. It is what it is. Of course, if you do file the barrel it will change the rib fit, etc, unless you don't file that flat & then I don't know what kind of mess you get into on looks. :idunno: It boils down to if it is too muzzle heavy for you, you need a dif. style of rifle.

Are there any other precautions of which I should be aware? If the topic has been discussed before I would glad to research it out in the forum history files.
There are Dozens of posts about building GPR's in on this site. Can't tell ya how to search for them as I never use the search feature.


As for the trigger, I use the standard issue ones on the GPR's I had & never had a problem. I think set triggers are made to be used as set triggers..... or they would be single triggers ...... :idunno: On the GPR's, I took them apart, polished them & used them......

Good Luck

Keith Lisle
 
Birddog6 said:
As for the trigger, I use the standard issue ones on the GPR's I had & never had a problem. I think set triggers are made to be used as set triggers..... or they would be single triggers ...... :idunno: On the GPR's, I took them apart, polished them & used them......
ok as far as the writing on the barrel is concerned, how you finish it depends on how much you see. i use either vinegar or naval jelly to finish mine. and it really covers nicely. now this guy here with the trigger advise, well dont listen to him. i suffered for years with my factory gpr trigger, did all the work. it still sucked! on both my gprs. the geometry is just wrong! spent the $40 for the davis triggers for one of my guns, immediately fell in love and got them for the other! dont suffer the fools errand and try to make due with the factory triggers. im still kicking myself for waiting so long. anyone who has converted theres will say the same. there is just no comparison!
heres a pic of one of the gprs ive done, and its sense been swapped over to the davis triggers, and L&R lock
rafflerifle003-2.jpg
 
Well folks, I started off with a GPR and didn't find the issues with the set trigger that some folks report.

AS to listening, or not listening to Birddog, Kieth knows what he is talking about. He ain't no Johnny come lately, and he is a pretty good Ml gunsmith and danged good gunmaker, so follow his advise and I think you will like the result.

If the rear trigger is too hard to set, all ya gotta do is reduce tension of the mainspring a bit. This ain't rocket science, folks.

God bless
 
You need to understand that I'm a fan of the Davis trigger before I say this, but here goes:

I'd start with the stock Lyman trigger, just to get the project rolling. If it doesn't suit you, then move on to the Davis. It's not expensive, and it's virtually a straight drop-in.

On the plus side, if you got a good Lyman trigger, cool. Be happy.

If it doesn't suit you, then you'll appreciate the Davis even more.
 
I can't imagine any reason to file off the manufacturer's name and serial number on the barrel. Anyone familiar with Lyman rifles Is NOT GOING TO MISTAKE a gun with the name filed off for some other make of gun. There are too many Lyman rifles around, and they have a distinctive style to them.

The comments of others concerning the difficulty in filing these stampings off are also appropriate considerations. I have done a lot of filing- as my father did not want us using power tools. You are contemplating a lot of filing, and the result is an ugly distortion of the lines of the barrel flats. I would not do it.

If you don't like the Lyman barrels, then buy an after market barrel from someone else, and fit it to the gun. The Lyman barrels are very accurate, so I can't see any justification for such a change like this, either. You still can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. :hmm:

As to reducing muzzle weight, you could have a machine shop use a milling machine to cut the tapers, and you don't have to taper the bottom three flats. That protects the fit of the barrel in the stock mortise, and also gives you a FLAT straight bottom flat for the false rib, and ramrod hole in the fore stock. If you don't want the front sight to be too low, stop the taper on the 3-5 flats( your taste) behind the front sight, and taper or arc the metal up to the rear sight "base". You still remove metal, which will shift the balance point to the rear, while having a weighted muzzle to help settle that sight picture when shooting off-hand, must the same way a swamped barrel works. :hmm:

With any coiled spring lock, you want to check that coiled spring when full cocked, to make sure its not "snaking" or "stacking" along the strut. If it is, cut off enough coils( one at a time) until the spring stops snaking or stacking. That will give you a better trigger pull, and a lighter hammer to cock.

Do polish off any burrs that are allowing parts to leave marks on the inside of the lockplate when those parts move. Again, it will make for a much smoother operating lock, and avoid wear problems that will crop up in the future.

There is enough wood in the stock for a lot of individual shaping. I do agree about replacing those cheap, small, escutcheon plate screws made of brass, if that is what comes in your kit.

Paul
 
I just bought a LGP kit - the box is sitting in the corner of the room. I've spent a considerable time reading through this forum, specifically the threads for building LGP kits. The more I read, the more intimidated I get. While I cannot deny the expert, first-hand knowledge provided on these threads, can anyone recommend some type of step-by-step, beginning to end tutorial that can take me through the process. Maybe something online or a book/pamphlet? Thanks
 
Use Mike Brooks tutorial, at the top of this Thread, to help you build the kit. He has lots of pictures of all the steps- most of which have been done for you. The Text is excellent, too. If you have a questions about a particular part or how-to join two parts together, ASK. That is why we are here. :hmm: :thumbsup:

Remember, the only DUMB question is the one NOT asked. We have all learned to ask "stupid " questions. Its part of growing up.

My brother was putting together a kit revolver he inherited from our father, and made a mistake of filing off something that should have been left. We laughed together about it- I had done similar things years ago on my first build-- and he found a replacement part so he could start over a couple of weeks later.

Don't expect Everything to go right.

Don't expect to not make mistakes.

This is where you learn a lot of skills. Have the courage to go forward.

If you are not sure which step is next, and you can't get the answer from Mike's tutorial, then ask. Its just that simple around here. :hatsoff:
 
The more I read, the more intimidated I get.

Just go ahead and start it. All these explanations of possible problems and solutions do not mean you will encounter all of them! Get your barrel and tang in place so that they match properly with the lock. Once that is ok, the rest is pretty much minor problems easily solved. Your barrel/tang/lock may match up perfectly with no effort on your part.
 
I agree with marmotslayer.

The posts you have read about problems that came up for an individual are just that. Sort of a one time thing for one person.

You probably won't read posts written by someone that did not have a problem. I mean, not many people take the time to write, "Tonight I installed my GPR stock endcap. I wrapped some masking tape around it to protect it from the sanding and then proceeded to sand the wood down to match it. Everything went just great!" or,
"I just put the breech tang into the stock! :grin:
It fit like a glove! :) The wood is standing a little above the top of the tang so I'm going to sand it down so that the two are flush."

Putting it another way, now is the time for you to get the parts out of the box and to try putting them together.
As you do this you may find a part that doesn't quite fit because a small area of wood needs to be removed.
Once this sort of thing is discovered get out your file, hobby or utility knife or sandpaper and "adjust" the offending wood until the part fits like it should.
While doing this remember the first rule of building. TAKE YOUR TIME.

As a little side hint, if your using sandpaper to remove wood from a mortice, use a small piece of wood like a pop-sicle or ice cream bar stick to back up or support the sandpaper. This will help keep the sandpaper nice and flat so it won't round off the edges of the slot.

Now, go get the parts out of the box and start working on your gun! :) :thumbsup:
 
Flash Pan Dan said:
I have read some posts here which advise folks to replace the brass screws with No. 3 wood screws . . .

What you need are plain steel #2 wood screws. They just fill the countersinks in the escutcheon plates. Get them from Brownell's or TOW.

Quite some time ago someone posted this picture here showing how to modify the GPR to look more like a traditional Plains Rifle. I've lost the link to the thread. But when building a GPR kit from scratch would be a good time to make the changes. I still have to do them to mine.
GPRmods2-1.jpg
 
It was liver eatin Johnson I believe that posted that. It helped me with the lines I wanted to fix on mine as well.

Flash Pan, like others have said, just start it. Go slow and have fun! And ask questions if you have them. There is a wealth of knowledge on here. The escutcheon screws are inherently the biggest pain most seem to have with this kit (I also broke on off in the stock). Just replace them with bigger screws. I used these #3 steel scews here. I couldn't find #2. Can't remember if i needed to slightly enlarge the coutersinks in the escutcheon or not. :hmm:
 
TAH said:
I just bought a LGP kit - the box is sitting in the corner of the room. I've spent a considerable time reading through this forum, specifically the threads for building LGP kits. The more I read, the more intimidated I get. While I cannot deny the expert, first-hand knowledge provided on these threads, can anyone recommend some type of step-by-step, beginning to end tutorial that can take me through the process. Maybe something online or a book/pamphlet? Thanks

You don't need a tutorial.... All you need is the kit & the instructions provided with it. If the instructions are missing, call them & they will mail them to you.

It is basically a "Put in place & insert screw" assembly kit. Don't make it difficult by over-thinking it. You can build it in 16 hrs on the kitchen table with a screwdriver, wood rasp, 8" mill file, sandpaper, & a Exacto knife.
Get it together & then decide if you want to age it, brown it, or blue it & proceed from there. Build it first tho so you can learn more of what goes where. Building a good plastic model car kit is harder than building a GPR or GPH.

Just do it. :idunno:

Keith Lisle
 
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