bullet

[Evan Ebersole]

I have a flintlock 40cal 40in.GM bbl.
I`m thinking of hunting deer with it using
40cal bullet400+grs. with paper patch 70grs. of 3f goex.
do you think it`s saft to shoot?
It`s like a 40-70 rife or is the bbl to small of dia.sould I go to 7/8 bbl.

 

[roundball]

Is there even such a thing as .40-70 cartridge? I've heard of a .45-70, which is a larger caliber.

I recently bought a .40cal myself, and that's an awful tiny bore...seems like 70grns 3F behind a 400+ grn conical would be a stout load for sure.

Are you sure there's a .40-70 cartridge?

And if so, are you sure the power used was 3F?

 

[Mike Brooks]

You'll burn out your nipple with in 1/2 dozen shots. I'd go with a platinum lined nipple if I were going to do it.

 

[torn moc]

before you buy any mold or bullets...put a micrometer into your bore to find the true diameter...then go from there....realizing that to stabilize such a heavy long bullet you will need 1:20 rifeling....
since you most likely dont have that fast a twist
you should at least keep your bullet weight under
320 grains ....I think I am correct on the 320 figure...but more learned people will jump in if I am incorrect for sure....Never fails...but it is great that such great minds are here on the forum.....

 

[Rebel]

You can pretty much bet on that. :grin:

 

[torn moc]

ha ha ha .....fast at the draw REBEL!

 

[torn moc]

I must say that I cant recall a 40/70 caliber...although they had a SLew of differnt calibers...45/70, 45/90. 50/70, 50/90, 50/110
52/???? thats whaere my 52 year old memory stops.......
it was just differnt loads of powder on the second number....
I am sure your 40 cal can handle 70 grains of powder....But ...the pressure will increase with the increase inbullet weight.....
I am not sure you can handle the 400 grain weight bullet you mentioned.....structually speaking and RECOIL.... also

 

[Leonredbeard]

Scalper,
If I recall, Rick hacker, back in the eighties, had built for a buffalo hunt, a 40/90. It had twist for fairly heavy bullets. I believe it was a falling block gonne. I can't say that this was a standard caliber or if he had it special made.
volatpluvia

 

[biliff]

Is there even such a thing as .40-70 cartridge? I've heard of a .45-70, which is a larger caliber.

There were two that I am aware of. The 40-70 Maynard (straight wall I believe) and the 40-70 Sharps (bottleneck).

As to the original question, I think you're going to have stabilization problems if you're rifle has a slow twist. That and I'm not sure how much difficulty you're going to have trying to seat a long paper patched bullet from the muzzle.

 

[paulvallandigham]

There were two .40-70 caliber cartridges as Bill has indicated. There is also the more common, .40-65, which is basically a .45-70 necked down to .40 caliber. If this is an old breechloader, I would do a chamber cast to determine the exact nature of the cartridge. The good news is that new brass is available regardless of the caliber. The condition of the chamber, or bore may be so bad that the gun needs a new barrel, or barrel liner, to put it back into reasonable condition, but that can also be done at a reasonable price. When a liner is put in, the chamber can be made for any cartridge that will fit.

YOu would be better off using FFg powder if you are shooting conicals, rather than a round ball in that rifle. You do need to use calipers to measure the exact bore of the barrel, and you should determine the rate of twist( ROT) of the barrel before deciding what kind of bullet or ball to use in it. You would want something like a 1:22" ROT in the barrel to be shooting conicals of any length. A round ball would be served with a 1:48 to 1:56 " ROT.

 

[torn moc]

ahem....
I believe that mr. "LOST IN TIME " started this thread by stating that he had a 40 cal
flintlock with a GM barrel.....
this would mean that he is Not using a breechloader ...only trying to duplicate the load.

 

[torn moc]

I always wondered why Pedersoli Sharps buisness rifles in .54 caliber were rifled with a 1:65.5 twist if they were intended to shoot long range elongated bullets.....

 

[paulvallandigham]

If that is the rate of twist to the rifling in those rifles, I would think it would be hard to stabilize a conical bullet at the velocities black powder loads attain. I would expect to see the bullet yaw, and then tumble end over end ater 200 yards or so. Perhaps they intend the barrel to be shot with the LEE R.E.A.L. slugs, which are like wad cutters. NO?

 

[xxgrampa]

yep there is, have 3 of them.. it's the 40-70 sharps straight or more commonlly called the 40-70ss. and as bakeoven bill said, there were a few more.

..ttfn..grampa..

 

[xxgrampa]

hi ho lost in time,

do like your way of thinking. always use enuff gun... howsomever, if that load was possible in a flintlock, it's way more than enuff gun for a big bull elk..

suppose you could use a pp bullet. but you would need a false muzzle to load it. or maybe a large cone in the muzzle. the stoock would have to be a bit stouter than most 40's would have.

you ask, should you go up to a 7/8's bbl??? what bbl do you now have??? 13/16's??

if you have your heart set on a conical for deer poison, try a 200gr. should be waaay more than enuff to do the deed..

please keep us posted...

good luck with the thought and ..ttfn..grampa..

 

[Leatherbark]

The 40-70 Sharps Bottleneck I believe had a real fast twist...Those long, I mean real long 40 caliber bullets will probably tumble end over end out of a flintlock ball twist barrel. I'd definately do some research. The bullet would have to be cast of pure lead to bump fit into the rifleing on firing. I would lean toward a 45 caliber flintlock and use a Maxi ball or a miniball...................Good luck though.........Bob

 

[ronrryan]

It may be a senior moment, as I sit here dribbling on myself, but I seem to remember a .40-82. Not so? Good smoke, ron in FL

 

[paulvallandigham]

The .40-82 used the same casing as the .40-90, but had a different weight bullet. No, you are not confused, or addle brained, or having a senior moment. You can get a good list of the old Black Powder cartridges in the back of a Dixie Gun Works catalog.

The real surprise has been the rise and success of the .40-65, as it has lower recoil for the long shooting programs of the Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette Assciation, while delivering a heavy enouh bullet to knock down the ram targets at 500 yds. The .45 and .50s hold the edge at the 800, 900, and 1,000 yard targets.

Both the .40-90 and the .45-90 were part of the " Express Rifle " craze that tried to give more power to existing cartridges by lengthening the casings. The .45-70 is 2.1 inches long, whereas the .45-90 is 2.4 inches long. I have not measure the .40-70, or .40-90, or .40-82, as I have only seen them in collections, but I believe a similar relationship exists with the .40s.

It should be remembered that Billy Dixon's famous Shot at Adobe Wells, that ended the seige by Commanche Indians, was taken with the " Big .50 ", which most historians and gun experts agree was the .50-90 Sharps cartridge, an express cartridge form of the .50-70. The shot was 7/8 of a mile, and taken at a group of about 20 Indians astride horses. Dixon's shot actually struck one of the warriors, who sickened and died several days later, according to Indian accounts. Dixon always said he was just aiming at the Group at that distance. The fact that he had the gumption to even attempt the shot is to his credit. He later won the Congressional Medal of Honor as an Army Scout. Sounds like the kind of guy you would want fighting on your side.