Bullets are a tight fit

[hopper055]

The barrel was cleaned by me the day before. The bore isn't pristine but it's far from bad. I do have a bore light I own modern firearms and have all the stuff to maintain them. And I wasn't trying to patch them. I was replying to an earlier post about using round balls.

My round balls came in and I bought a yard of pillow ticking and some crisco. The ticking is being washed right now. But how do I apply the crisco? I have read of people melting it and letting the patches soak it up. People spreading it on every other patch and making a stack and letting them soak it all up. And of people just rubbing it on when they are at the range. I want to use strps and cut the patches as I shoot. Any help is appreciated.

 

[mooman76]

Just wipe a little on before you load and cut the patch. I just stick the patch on it and wipe. Not hard, you don't need allot, just a light coat. Crisco isn't the best lube but it works good enough. That's what I started using long ago and I'm sure many others did too. Any of the ways you mentioned would work also, so just choose your way.

 

[rafterob]

I used straight crisco for a long time and pre lubed the patch strips. Discovered that was a greasy mess. Then I put my crisco in empty cap tins and rubbed only one side of the patching as I loaded. That was better. Now I mix crisco with bees wax to the consistency of shoe polish. That is the best so far, no greasy mess.

 

[Shifty]

Hopper I have a 50cal CVA Mountain Stalker 1-32 twist that I have been using 370grn T/C Maxi Balls in with great accuracy for me 1" groups a 50yds ,well the other day I discovered I only had 3-4 of the 370 grners left so while a Wal-Mart I saw the same 320grners you are trying they would not load into my bore after ruining a short starter I stopped removed niple got all the powder out i could put water into barrel for a while ,tried to screw my ball puller into the bullet it would not screw in the lead was so hard so I drilled the bullet to relief the pressure and got it out that way ,measured the lands on the 320 grn ones and they are about .005 bigger on each land than the 370 grn ones and a whole lot harder to dent.So you are not the only one having problems with the New 320 grn ones.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Buy yourself a dial or digital calipers and learn how to use it. It will come in handy more than you know.

 

[50cal.cliff]

My .50 will shoot a .490 ball w/pillow ticking and it is a good fit.

Using the same ticking I can feed her a .495 but, it is tight as can be, but is doable, using the hand over hand method with the ram rod.

However using the same load that I used with the .490 ball, the .495 ball will rattle your teeth when you touch her off. The first time I tried it, I went thru my breathing right and hit the set trigger and when I was good I touched off the load. I have taught myself to not jump the shot but stay with head in firing position. Soooo that was a surprise when I touched it off! :surrender:

Accuracy difference between the two loads, the .495 is just a tad better with accuracy as long as you don't shoot too many.

After about 6-8 you will begin to develop a flinch! :idunno: :haha: I think it has too do with the increased whampam that the tight load brings too the table!

 

[William O.]

I used straight crisco for a long time and pre lubed the patch strips. Discovered that was a greasy mess. Then I put my crisco in empty cap tins and rubbed only one side of the patching as I loaded. That was better. Now I mix crisco with bees wax to the consistency of shoe polish. That is the best so far, no greasy mess.

I used this method using beeswax and olive oil and it also worked just fine. Empty cap tins work great for this too.

 

[lapierre1]

I like the beeswax and olive oil myself. Works just as good on cast bullets for BPCR.

 

[ccmountainman]

I think I PMed you a while back on this. But...
as others have said.
some barrels are tighter than others. Deeper rifling.
You don't use a patch with a conical bullet (maxi or mini style).
Round balls you likely will have to try a mix and match in the two different common ball sizes and thickness of patch material.
Typical traditional style MuzzleLoaders really aren't designed for sabotted bullets although some people do use them.
When buying at the store, be very sure they are for traditional side lock Muzzleloaders as it can sometimes make a difference.
If in doubt, measure them, be sure they aren't boxed wrong. .495 to .510 is a common variance.
Pure lead .50 cal conicals.
Many do not come prelubed from the factory.

Do NOT use a petroleum based lube in Black Powder.

Crisco will work, but there is better.

Most make their lubes from lard (tallow) and beeswax and adjust the ratios to fit their preference. start at 50 /50 both melted separately.

If and when you swab between shots, either soap and water and dry thoroughly or 80 % and better Rubbing Alcohol.
solvents and moose milk and such can cause issues.
Not always but can.
Also swabbing can cause your flash hole to be blocked , so use care there.
Been using rubbing alcohol 35+ years. I rarely have ever swabbed between shots. Hunting only if I have missed 5 or 6 times in two or three days.
And I don't miss anywhere's near that often.
Targets??? only when it gets so I can't load any more.

But back to the original topic.
You should be able to press the conical down with just the palm of your hand on the short starter.
Then another 4 to 6" with the long end of the short starter. Maybe a little whack with the palm.
Switching to a ram rod. You can make or buy a wood guide to lay over muzzle to protect your hand
and same for a Palm saver to go over top of ramrod.

 

[Josh Smith]

Lubes...

I used to use pillow ticking patches that I soaked up melted beeswax with. The straight beeswax seemed to do just fine.

More recently, that melted beeswax has been getting a bit of olive oil melted in with it. I'm going to run that for a bit and see if I like it better.

If you look on old ships' manifests, you'll see "sweet oil." This is olive oil and was used for patches back in the American Colonies and elsewhere.

Josh

 

[Cullie]

Hello all, I am having the same issue with a new pedersoli 54 hawken hunter, casting 450 g Great Plains bullets. By the time I get the gun loaded I’m wore out and have to rest before firing lol. Casting pure lead for these, I have a tin mixture lead that I use for my BPC rifles can I use that? Will I get more shrinkage? I’ve looked for a sizing die for my lube sizer but not finding anything for the 54 cal. Thanks

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hello all, I am having the same issue with a new pedersoli 54 hawken hunter, casting 450 g Great Plains bullets. By the time I get the gun loaded I’m wore out and have to rest before firing lol. Casting pure lead for these, I have a tin mixture lead that I use for my BPC rifles can I use that? Will I get more shrinkage? I’ve looked for a sizing die for my lube sizer but not finding anything for the 54 cal. Thanks

So First, use a micrometer and check your bore at the muzzle. Then check your cast bullets. You should be using pure lead. Sometimes we get sources of pure lead that aren't pure. On the other hand perhaps Q.C. was off and your mold isn't throwing the proper size projectiles.

You shouldn't be beating yourself up trying to get the bullet to seat. I made .54 REAL bullets from a Lee mold for my brother's mule deer hunt, and they are purposely oversized at the front ring to be swaged onto the rifling when loading (REAL is R ifling E ngraved At L oading) and they seat easily after the first fitting. So bullets made to fit just inside the lands of the rifling should not be super tight.

As to an alloy, alloys will not shrink as much as pure lead, so IF you're having a problem now, and you are using pure lead, then you will have more if you go to an alloy.

LD

 

[William Sublette]

Any resolution?

 

[Cullie]

So First, use a micrometer and check your bore at the muzzle. Then check your cast bullets. You should be using pure lead. Sometimes we get sources of pure lead that aren't pure. On the other hand perhaps Q.C. was off and your mold isn't throwing the proper size projectiles.

You shouldn't be beating yourself up trying to get the bullet to seat. I made .54 REAL bullets from a Lee mold for my brother's mule deer hunt, and they are purposely oversized at the front ring to be swaged onto the rifling when loading (REAL is R ifling E ngraved At L oading) and they seat easily after the first fitting. So bullets made to fit just inside the lands of the rifling should not be super tight.

As to an alloy, alloys will not shrink as much as pure lead, so IF you're having a problem now, and you are using pure lead, then you will have more if you go to an alloy.

LD

When I sat “pure lead” it’s lead that was saved by my father-in-law, he retired from a phone company and saved all the lead wrap off of the larger phone cables. My Lyman mold is dropping .544 I guess I need to slug the bore to get a better reading on bore size. I don’t have a 54 RB mould yet but will try them. 1:24 twist I’ve read will shoot RB with decent accuracy. This is not intended for long range I have bpcr guns for that. This gun is for hunting at 200 yds and less.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

When I sat “pure lead” it’s lead that was saved by my father-in-law, he retired from a phone company and saved all the lead wrap off of the larger phone cables. My Lyman mold is dropping .544 I guess I need to slug the bore to get a better reading on bore size. I don’t have a 54 RB mould yet but will try them. 1:24 twist I’ve read will shoot RB with decent accuracy. This is not intended for long range I have bpcr guns for that. This gun is for hunting at 200 yds and less.

So that phone cable stuff tends to be pretty soft as they want it to be flexible even when cold. I wonder if the mold is wrong for your bore?

Also what lube are you using?

LD

 

[Cullie]

So that phone cable stuff tends to be pretty soft as they want it to be flexible even when cold. I wonder if the mold is wrong for your bore?

Also what lube are you using?

LD

Lube, my own. Bees wax beef tallow and olive oil. I even smeared them with bore butter thinking they may go down easier.

 

[wiscoaster]

How tight are the bullets suppose to be in the barrel?....... I also have .490 lead balls on the way ......

The tighter the fit the more accurate it shoots. That being said, once you get it started, it shouldn't take some outlandish force to get it all the way down to where it's properly seated. If so, there's another problem. If the bore is clean, then I'm guessing the bore might need polishing.

.490 balls should be appropriate for .50 caliber round balls. Conicals take a larger diameter, but I can't speak to them experience-wise.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Hello all, I am having the same issue with a new pedersoli 54 hawken hunter, casting 450 g Great Plains bullets. By the time I get the gun loaded I’m wore out and have to rest before firing lol. Casting pure lead for these, I have a tin mixture lead that I use for my BPC rifles can I use that? Will I get more shrinkage? I’ve looked for a sizing die for my lube sizer but not finding anything for the 54 cal. Thanks

The Hawken Hunter I have is a .54. I have measured and slugged the bore. Yours may vary but mine came in at .533". I've polished the bore and such as others have mentioned but the thing is closer to a .53 cal than a .54, hence the loading hard. As Loyalist Dave mentioned the LEE REAL bullets work in mine, the lower bands ride the bore, and the top one goes in with a hard rap on the starter. Everything else in .54 cal loads pretty hard and RB need a thinner patch or they're a bear to load. Patching between shots is almost a must.

 

[bpd303]

I need to slug the bore to get a better reading on bore size.

A good and easy to slug the bore of a muzzleloader is to take piece of brass rod about 6 in long that fits loose in the bore. Drop it in the bore and take one of the bullets that are hard to load, tap it in the muzzle then turn the rifle muzzle down and shake it up and down so the brass rod drives the slug out. Of course if you have Cerrosafe you can use that also and the rod will pop it out.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

I used the brass rod and one of the Hornady Great Plains bullets that wouldn't even start without being tapped in method. Works like a charm, just make sure the rod has enough mass to do the job.