But is it American???

[robinghewitt]

I received a gun this morning off a web auction, took one look at the deep incised engraving, wavy line around the lock margin, 13b shotgun with fixed sights and not a proof mark in sight and I said, "American".

It has a rolled steel ramrod, light and perfectly tapered, never seen one of them before. It's not particularly well made, but it is unusual.

I think I like it but I'm not sure, maybe it'll grow on me ::

 

[bradmartin]

Nope! Its terrible! It will only cause you pain. But, because your such a nice guy, I'll get rid of it for you. :crackup:

 

[arilar]

Robin,
Pictures? Please?!
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

 

[oldmaster]

Squire Robin, I'm not sure if Scarecrow would appreciate how ugly and disfigured that shotgun sounds. I, on the other hand, would know exactly how to treat it. You can forward to me at your convenience, postage c.o.d. of course. :crackup: :crackup:

 

[robinghewitt]

Pictures? Please?!

Is that American engraving?

 

[Stumpkiller]

Is that American engraving?

Hard to say - since American engraving is Austrian/Tyrolean engaving, Bavarian and Swiss engraving and English engraving with a little French added for good measure.

It looks fairly typical of either "American" or Belgian.

Ship it to me and I'll let you know on closer inspection. ::

Is the washer under the sideplate screw teardrop shaped or with a little finial that projects away from the bolt?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Actually, Robin, it doesn't appear all that poorly made. The engraving isn't in any American tradition that I am aware of, not that I'm an expert. Looks Continental to me. Belgian, perhaps?

 

[robinghewitt]

It looks fairly typical of either "American" or Belgian. -snip- Is the washer under the sideplate screw teardrop shaped

Ah! If it was Belgian it would have proofs, perhaps. There is no cup under the screw, just a dent in the wood :hmm:

I must admit it doesn't look "poorly made" in photo's... that's how come I bought it :: :: ::

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Robin, Perhaps the proofs were filed off during final fitting? A certain well known gunmaker of yore was thought to have done this. The engraving just doesn't look American--can you post a full length picture or maybe a breech/buttstock and a fore arm photo? What sort of under-rib does it have?
Just had a thought . Could the engraving have been applied at some remove from when the fowler was first made? The lock looks like a good English shotgun lock and I'm assuming it is stocked in walnut. The engraving seems to have a naive quality about it. Ain't old guns fun?!?

 

[robinghewitt]

The engraving just doesn't look American--can you post a full length picture

Hand cut American engravings are naive, it's not that they couldn't do it because the mid 19th century roll engravings are superb.

I've never seen that wiggly line around a lock margin from anywhere else :hmm:

The under rib is thin folded iron, it has rusted through in parts and someone has tried to resolder it. It has a cheek piece on the other side. The quality of the inletting is borderline between poor and okay'ish.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've never seen that style cap box on an American piece, but it strikes me as also wrong for an English gun. Is the engraving on the cap box lid stylistically similar to the rest of the engraving?
The rear sight is interesting, both in form and just because it is there. It would seem to indicate useage with patched ball loads and, again, it really doesn't look American or English.
The number cut into the stock looks like a rack number. That seems a bit strange, but perhaps it indicates a military connection? This certainly is an interesting piece, and the more I look at it the more interesting it is.
Is it possible that the barrel was originally stamped with proof marks, and the subsequent engraving has obscured them?

 

[halfstock]

I think you'll find it's English or Irish.
Halfstock :m2c: :results: :hatsoff:

 

[arilar]

Robin,
Dont judge on lack of proofs. I just this week got a nice Liege-signed percussionpistol (Le Page-style) with makers signatur not able to read but lacking all "normal" Liege-proofs.
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

 

[oldmaster]

That patch box/cap box on the stock looks like ones I have seen on Swedish firearms. Of course the Swedish could have copied someone else's style but that style looks mighty like the Swedish rifles I have seen. :imo:

 

[arilar]

That patch box/cap box on the stock looks like ones I have seen on Swedish firearms. Of course the Swedish could have copied someone else's style but that style looks mighty like the Swedish rifles I have seen. :imo:

Sorry Oldmaster,
For sure not seen on Swedish rifles :imo:. If for some reason it would occure on a Swedish rifle its absolutely copied from....???? :: Also, nothing else on the rifle gives directions to Sweden (would have loved Swedish rifles like this :cry.In many ways it resembles my Rigby replica-rifle :shocking:.
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Robin-what is the buttplate made from?

 

[robinghewitt]

Robin-what is the buttplate made from?

Either ebony or ebonised ::

 

[robinghewitt]

(would have loved Swedish rifles like this :cry.In many ways it resembles my Rigby replica-rifle :shocking:.
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

Whoa, hang on a mo', let's not get carried away, this is nothing like a Rigby.

Well, unless Rigby once carved a stock with one hand tied behind his back, using only a small hand axe and after drinking 10 pints of John Smiths best :shocking:

 

[Slamfire]

Maybe it was Rigby's brother-in-law. :crackup:

 

[bezoar]

It might not have the proofs on it, but it could be belgian. the pistol part of the butt is eerily similar to a few belgian pistols ive seen online.