Butt plate identification

[gstubbs]

The stocks of two firearms have been cut down to make shoulder stocks for two examples of the obsolete tool the "farrier's butteris". This chisel-like tool was used for paring down a horse's hoof prior to shoeing. The farrier held the tool at the grip with one hand, and applied pressure from the shoulder. The stocks were normally made of wood, shaped to fit comfortably against the shoulder. The use of the butteris was eventually discouraged because of the risk of injury to the horse.
Can anyone help identify the kind of guns from which they were salvaged? I make no pretense of knowing anything about early firearms. I originally speculated they were from the Civil War era, but photos of "Brown Bess" muskets, and advertisements for replacements parts have me wondering whether the longer, plainer looking, one was from the Revolutionary War period. The butt plate photos that I've seen on line mostly don't include the engraved decoration shown on the other example. Neither stock has a screw through the top side, and each has a horizontal iron pin located where it would run though a projection under the top part of the butt plate. I'm working on a piece for the "Chronicle", the journal of the Early American Industries Association EAIA.

 

[EC121]

The first one looks like something from one of those cheap hardware store Belgian shotguns of the percussion era.

 

[TDM]

Very interesting!

 

[gstubbs]

The use of a cross pin through a lug to secure the tang (upper) part of the butt plate seems to be common on muskets of the Revolutionary War era. Was it discontinued by the Civil War?

 

[gstubbs]

The first one looks like something from one of those cheap hardware store Belgian shotguns of the percussion era.

What feature looks similar? Did the Belgian shotguns of that era use the same lug and pin method to secure the buttplate tang?

 

[EC121]

The basic shape of the buttplate tang and the cheap looking engraving. I don't know about the lug and pin.

 

[DuncNZ]

The engraved brass butt plate shows a pin down in the stock , I'm not sure about the other one
Some used a hook on the end of the butt plate tang that hooked under the head of a concealed flat head screw in the stock .

 

[gstubbs]

The engraved brass butt plate shows a pin down in the stock , I'm not sure about the other one
Some used a hook on the end of the butt plate tang that hooked under the head of a concealed flat head screw in the stock .

Both of them have a pin going through the stock. It seems that that method of securing the tang was replaced, in some cases, by a screw through the tang. Any idea roughly when that hqappened?

 

[springfield art]

The stocks of two firearms have been cut down to make shoulder stocks for two examples of the obsolete tool the "farrier's butteris". This chisel-like tool was used for paring down a horse's hoof prior to shoeing. The farrier held the tool at the grip with one hand, and applied pressure from the shoulder. The stocks were normally made of wood, shaped to fit comfortably against the shoulder. The use of the butteris was eventually discouraged because of the risk of injury to the horse.
Can anyone help identify the kind of guns from which they were salvaged? I make no pretense of knowing anything about early firearms. I originally speculated they were from the Civil War era, but photos of "Brown Bess" muskets, and advertisements for replacements parts have me wondering whether the longer, plainer looking, one was from the Revolutionary War period. The butt plate photos that I've seen on line mostly don't include the engraved decoration shown on the other example. Neither stock has a screw through the top side, and each has a horizontal iron pin located where it would run though a projection under the top part of the butt plate. I'm working on a piece for the "Chronicle", the journal of the Early American Industries Association EAIA.

I'd never seen this re-use. Interesting!

 

[Rudyard]

The stocks of two firearms have been cut down to make shoulder stocks for two examples of the obsolete tool the "farrier's butteris". This chisel-like tool was used for paring down a horse's hoof prior to shoeing. The farrier held the tool at the grip with one hand, and applied pressure from the shoulder. The stocks were normally made of wood, shaped to fit comfortably against the shoulder. The use of the butteris was eventually discouraged because of the risk of injury to the horse.
Can anyone help identify the kind of guns from which they were salvaged? I make no pretense of knowing anything about early firearms. I originally speculated they were from the Civil War era, but photos of "Brown Bess" muskets, and advertisements for replacements parts have me wondering whether the longer, plainer looking, one was from the Revolutionary War period. The butt plate photos that I've seen on line mostly don't include the engraved decoration shown on the other example. Neither stock has a screw through the top side, and each has a horizontal iron pin located where it would run though a projection under the top part of the butt plate. I'm working on a piece for the "Chronicle", the journal of the Early American Industries Association EAIA.

The engraved one is some private gun shotgun perhaps, The plain one looks very Brown Bess Government musket . Interesting side light on the Farriers trade in terms of date the Bess seems to be' India pattern' Napolionic period ' the other is any ones guess
Regards Rudyard

 

[gstubbs]

The engraved one is some private gun shotgun perhaps, The plain one looks very Brown Bess Government musket . Interesting side light on the Farriers trade in terms of date the Bess seems to be' India pattern' Napolionic period ' the other is any ones guess
Regards Rudyard

Regarding the engraved butt plate, there is no screw hole in the tang, but there apears to be a cross pin below it, similar to the way the tang is secured on the Brown Bess. Does that say something about the likely period of manufacture?

 

[Rudyard]

Well its so short it dos'nt seem to warrent a lug to pin through but it could be a reuse of an earlier arm that did . Or simply the makers custom It's not that poorly engraved they took some care .Hard to date but pre 1900 at least it all depended on the particular regional or market it was intended for cant get too much in depth with one part unlike the Govt Muskets & they came according to date & use .A carbine would be smaller for example .
and different patterns varied .
Deduced out Rudyard

 

[ab44]

There were many engravers in 1800 era and even though it looks rough to us (by newer standards) a country engraver would have been a special worker and his work however rough would have been cherished. Decorative art went through many forms and there were many grades of workers . This rough work could have been done in the rural area and by a modest apprentice. Best work was done in centers and in NYC. Engravers did not make a lot of money as well in those days . Just for info as I engrave.