Buying my son a Flintlock for Christams

[Sean Adams]

My son is hard to buy for because he never asks for anything, or even hints. He is 17 and gives me reason to be proud, so I was surprised and delighted when for the first time ever he said what he would like for Christmas, a flintlock. His reason being that he wants to expand his white tail season and he sees himself as a Green Mountain Boy, wanting to live the traditions.
I only have around 400 to spend and am hoping to pick up a TC Hawkins or possibly a Austin&Halleck that I came across. From what I have gleaned thus far these are booth solid choices for ones first hunting Flinter, but would love to get opinions and insights on these and others one might suggest. I do know about the early TC ****, and the A&H poor quality when they moved to Utah, because I have been doing some homework.
I would also like to know about calibers. Will the .45 have an enough lower recoil to notice? My son is not used to heavy recoil, and less might help him get adjusted to the whole black powder thing. I have read that .50 will be more versatile in loads and clearly a better slayer, but again it is his first foray and anything that encourages continued use would be a plus.

 

[Don Steele]

Sean,
This will be a blessing in disguise for you. If you find a flintlock rifle for your son...he will never be hard to buy for again..!!! From now on, there will always be some sort of accessory or "doo-dad" you can find that he won't already have which will make a perfect gift. A late model T/C "Hawken style" rifle with their flintlock will be a good starter. If you're patient you may be able to find one in ( or close to) your price range. A pre-owned caplock can definitely be found in that range and you might want to consider discussing that option with him. For someone just starting out shooting traditional muzzleloading rifles there's already enough new things to learn, new skills to master without adding the unique nature (and foibles) of a flintlock to it. As to caliber...there's no question that a .45 is enough, but I prefer 50..I must, I have 5 of them, plus a .40. Never owned a .45, but that's just me.
As to recoil...my preferred, and successful loading for my 50 caliber rifles is quite mild 11 months out of the year. The only time I use a heavier load is when I'm hunting and in all of the shots-on-game I've taken, I don't remember the recoil at all. Working up my hunting loads, I use a "PAST" recoil pad on my shoulder and have no issues whatever.

 

[Spikebuck]

Sean,

Glad to hear your son is looking for a flintlock. It's good to see young men and women take on this interest. We need them to keep the sport going!

In general, black powder is a little softer on the shoulder than high-caliber modern guns. One doesn't need to put huge loads of powder in either, so that can further soften the kick. To further reduce felt recoil, a wider buttplate helps a lot. This can be an issue with many production guns where the gunmaker is trying to minimize materials usage so the stocks tend to be thinner and a Hawken type rifle by nature has a thinner curved buttplate that, to me anyway, transfers more recoil to a smaller area. So if he is recoil sensitive, just be cognizant that architecture and stock design does make a difference.

A 50 is a good choice for many reasons. Not only is it a very effective caliber on big game, but "stuff" is available for it all over because it's also the top choice for modern muzzleloading guns. Personally, my favorite is the 54, but I owned and used a 50 in the past and it's a great all around caliber. I don't think you can go wrong with it.

If I were looking for a used production gun, I wouldn't rule out the wide array that Pedersoli produces. The Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and Blue Ridge/Frontier can be good choices. I know he wants a flinter, but I see that right now Cabela's has the Pedersoli Pennsylvania 50 cal on sale for $529 in caplock. That's a pretty darned good deal on a new rifle.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/PEDERSOLI-PENNSYLVANIA-PERCUSSION-CAL-BP-RIFLE/1776935.uts?slotId=6

One final thing on choice. I, and by comments on this forum it's not just me, find that some of the production guns do not have enough drop in the stock which doesn't allow me to come on target with them quickly, plus some can be cheekslappers. I have no idea what your son needs in that respect, but it's just something else to be careful with on some production rifles. My wife had a Traditions Pennsylvania that was fairly straight stocked and for me it was nearly unshootable because I had to unnaturally bend my head way down just to get the sights to line up...and that was after installing different higher sights. I never had that issue with my Pedersoli's.

Good luck in your search and keep us informed!

Mike

 

[FishDFly]

You might look at Tack Of The Wolf or The Gun Works to see what they have.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I would also like to know about calibers. Will the .45 have an enough lower recoil to notice? My son is not used to heavy recoil, and less might help him get adjusted to the whole black powder thing. I have read that .50 will be more versatile in loads and clearly a better slayer, but again it is his first foray and anything that encourages continued use would be a plus.

Yes and..., No...,



Well there are various factors involved.
How far do you guys want to shoot, and do you anticipate using a conical bullet instead of a patched round ball?

So with a .440 patched round ball, the .45 will recoil less than the .50 or .54.
IF however, you go for a .45 conical, the lightest is going to be about 250 grains, which is heavier than the 177 grain .490 round ball and about equal with the 224 grain .530 round ball...., and thus will kick more than the .50 when the .50 is loaded with a round ball (and similar powder loads are used).
IF you're going for shots beyond 50 yards, and using that conical in the .45, you may even find you need to add a tad more powder too.

Now the TC Hawken in .45 tends to be a lot less available than the same rifle in .50 or .54.

So you probably will be more able to find a .50 at a reasonable price. The .490 round ball will do just fine with a moderate powder load from 60-80 grains. The TC Hawken has a beautiful, brass, butt plate, so you will likely find that a recoil pad for high powdered modern rifles will mitigate a majority of the felt recoil imparted by that Hawken metal butt plate. Such pads run about $30.

LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

Actually a T/C Renegade in 54 with its wider, flat butt plate might be worth considering. You can always load the rifle with less powder to reduce recoil.

 

[Sparkitoff]

I would not worry too much about recoil. You can adjust the load as time goes on. My oldest is 14 and 122 pounds. He shoots a .54 with no problem. We loaded 55 grains and went up until he said "that's all I want to tolerate" as far as recoil. Ended up being 80 grains. He thinks with smaller hands the bigger ball is easier to handle.

With a flintlock, I would be adamant about sure-fire ignition. One possibility is to find a older TC, CVA or like and put and L&R lock on it as well as check and adjust the touch-hole if necessary. It might stretch your budget a little. If you got a decent TC for $350 the L&R lock would be $185. I use those #'s because that is kind of an average of what I see on a few gun buying sites and Track of the Wolf. A CVA Mountain Rifle would be awesome and some of those are closer to $300.

As a parent, you definitely know what is going to work best for your own son. For mine, I would not want poor triggers, anything potentially unsafe, sporadic/difficult/intermittent ignition, hard-to-load, very finicky. Anything with a good reputation, parts availability and "tune-ability" should be seriously considered. Ideally you can see the bore and work the trigger(s) in person before you buy.

Best of luck! I wish you and your son a super blessed Christmas and long success with your longrifles!

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

My son is hard to buy for because he never asks for anything, or even hints. He is 17 and gives me reason to be proud, so I was surprised and delighted when for the first time ever he said what he would like for Christmas, a flintlock. His reason being that he wants to expand his white tail season and he sees himself as a Green Mountain Boy, wanting to live the traditions.

Wow! What a dad you are! Reminds me of my great dad. I was about 10 or 11 in the back yard with Dad and trusty Daisy BB gun. We had an apple tree in front of us and he pointed out an apple for me to shoot. I shot, and he then picked it, pulled out his knife, sliced just past the skin and hit the BB. He looked at me and said " I think it is time to get you something more powerful". We went the local hardware and he purchase me a Winchester model 62.
Enjoy your son, time flies.
Flintlocklar

 

[Phil Coffins]

My son is hard to buy for because he never asks for anything, or even hints. He is 17 and gives me reason to be proud, so I was surprised and delighted when for the first time ever he said what he would like for Christmas, a flintlock. His reason being that he wants to expand his white tail season and he sees himself as a Green Mountain Boy, wanting to live the traditions.
I only have around 400 to spend and am hoping to pick up a TC Hawkins or possibly a Austin&Halleck that I came across. From what I have gleaned thus far these are booth solid choices for ones first hunting Flinter, but would love to get opinions and insights on these and others one might suggest. I do know about the early TC ****, and the A&H poor quality when they moved to Utah, because I have been doing some homework.
I would also like to know about calibers. Will the .45 have an enough lower recoil to notice? My son is not used to heavy recoil, and less might help him get adjusted to the whole black powder thing. I have read that .50 will be more versatile in loads and clearly a better slayer, but again it is his first foray and anything that encourages continued use would be a plus.

You certainly have done your homework. The general advice given so far is good and to add my spin on it is aim for a 50 and the lock will be the make or break item on a flint lock. L&R has a hit and miss reputation for their locks so knowing what to look for is important.

 

[Hammond79]

I will admit my ignorance with flintlocks. I am still looking for my 1st. However, I will add another option for consideration, the Lyman Trade Rifle in .50. A little shopping should get you close to your budget. Lymans are good quality guns. As said above you can adjust the load to meet recoil tolerance. A .50 also has a larger varety of off the shelf projectiles to optimize accuracy. I advocate a new versus used gun to reduce the possibility of getting a gun someone is selling due to some issue. Also a new rifle will be his and his only, if that matters.
Just my $.02

--Hammond

 

[Hammond79]

PS Good Luck!

 

[Erwan]

So with a .440 patched round ball, the .45 will recoil less than the .50 or .54.
IF however, you go for a .45 conical, the lightest is going to be about 250 grains, which is heavier than the 177 grain .490 round ball and about equal with the 224 grain .530 round ball...., and thus will kick more than the .50 when the .50 is loaded with a round ball (and similar powder loads are used).

That's sure, I'm shooting (prone position) at 109 yards (100m) twice the week with a Pedersoli Tryon in .45 caliber. I'm shooting with a twist of 1:21 and so the bullets needed are weighing 500grains or 32grams (mold Pedersoli USA 318- 451) and 65 grains of Swiss N°2 BP...
It's only a .45 caliber and not my .50 but you perfectly feel the taste of the fruit when shooting...

 

[Grenadier1758]

Hopefully the supply of black powder is good where you live. Substitute black powder simply works best in a flint lock. The substitute powder require a much higher ignition temperature than is generated in the pan flash of the flintlock. Substitutes work okay in percussion guns, but black powder is better.

 

[No Deer]

My first muzzle loader was a TC .50 flintlock. I disagree with those who say a caplock would be a better choice for a 1st ml. I had no problems getting it to shoot fine, and this was before the internet was available.
As far as recoil, as had been said above, it can be loaded down and increased gradually as he gets used to it. Shooting a round ball the recoil is much less than with a TC Maxi ball. I use the maxi ball (375 gr., 90 gr 3f goex) when deer hunting, but the recoil is very manageable.

 

[Spikebuck]

Substitute black powder simply works best in a flint lock.

You must have had a typo. I'm sure you meant to say REAL black powder simply works best in a flint lock. Substitutes work poorly in a flint lock.

 

[Barrie Dale]

A T/C Hawkin is the best choice for a starter Flintlock. It will give him a lifetime of shooting pleasure and are very accurate also. Very well made gun and a lot of fun to shoot also. Either a 45 or 50 cal with 60Grns of powder to start will do the job at up to 100 feet very nicely.

 

[Erwan]

Hopefully the supply of black powder is good where you live.

This begin to be difficult with the new laws. We are now limited to four pounds of all kind BP from 4Fg to 3Fg French or Swiss. The dealers are limited at four pounds (2Kg) too if they don't have any "bunker" for the stock.

The BP is more and more expensive et the biggest problem is in the shipping and the insurances: the Kg of Swiss N°2 is around 100,00 bucks and we can't use substitutes: they aren't allowed in France but only in England a bit and in Germany...

That makes that with the Kg of powder, for a regular shooter, only one month and sometimes a bit more but not much more...

I know where and how get Pyrodex RS that works with percussion but all is under surveillance and I don't want take the risk right now.

This is no political but I say everyday: "Thanks Mr. Macron, you are the friend of the shooters"...

Other thing more in the right thread, are you sure that the substitutes are working better than the real BP in flintlock ?... I don't think so after seen how do the Pyro with percussion: that it is not the best stuff that you have but you can find it everywhere at anytime and this is an advantage..... a big one...

 

[Barrie Dale]

My last purchase of BP was in 3 one lb tins at $26.00 a tin for NO 3 powder from GOEX. It performs quite well for me.

 

[Buzzard II]

I would go with a .50 caliber Thompson Center Hawken flintlock to START WITH! I'm sure your son will get more muzzleloaders as time goes on and he can get a .54 and .45 caliber and so on. TOTW (Track of the Wolf) has good flints and Jerry at Powder Inc. usually carries a lot of BP at reasonable prices mail order. TOTW carries Green Mountain barrels and L&R Locks for the T/C Hawken too. Bobby Hoyt can reline a barrel to any bore/twist too. Log Cabin Shop is another place to check out. Good luck with whatever you choose.
Bob

 

[torpedo]

Sean, I have a .50 T/C Hawken flintlock. I have refinished the stock and browned the barrel and installed fixed sights. It is a beauty, and shoots extremely well. If you are interested PM me and I will give you a price and photos. I have expanded my rifle collection to the point I do need to sell a few.