Cal. 54 Ardesa Mountain Rifle

[Klaus]

Good Morning

pls allow me asking for a Ball Size issue

following common information the Ball Size for CVA/Ardesa Barrels are often smaler as for italian made barrels.

My Cal.45 Kentucky or Mountain Rifle shoot better with .440 as with .445 balls

will this have a validity for CVA / Ardesa Cal.54 Barrels also?

thx for your experiences

Klaus from Cologne

 

[bubba.50]

Yes, .530 or .535 are the two most common sizes used for 54cal guns.

 

[necchi]

will this have a validity for CVA / Ardesa Cal.54 Barrels also?

Not always,
Each rifle should be tested/experimented with both sizes for most accurate loads.
My CVA 50cal Mountain Rifle likes .495.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Not always,
Each rifle should be tested/experimented with both sizes for most accurate loads.

True. But, he cannot be blamed for trying to get the best fit without a lot of experimentation. I have a new rifle on the way and will be getting two sets of moulds for it. It's a .50 cal., I'm getting a set of .490" and a set of .495". OTOH, both sizes may come into play during the life of the rifle. The .45s I currently use get .440" for field use and woods walks and even offhand at 25 yards. For more serious target work I feed them .445" prb.

 

[necchi]

True. But, he cannot be blamed for trying to get the best fit without a lot of experimentation.

Oh I understand that.
That's the dickens of it. Buying ball is darn expensive, and buying a mold is even more expensive.
So if Klaus is lucky maybe someone here has that rifle and can recommended the ball size he uses.
Otherwise are you ready to give him a definitive answer as to which size will work best in his rifle?

 

[Sparkitoff]

My personal CVA is a little oversized. It needs a thick patch with .530 to be happy. A .535 will work with .15 patch. I've not heard of the Spanish barrels being inherently tight. I have heard more about them being inconsistent in bore diameter. You really have to try your own, maybe you can use a micrometer before or making purchasing balls and patches? I have a CVA .50 that is .512 to the grooves and needs a very thick patch or with .490's or a .495 with moderate patch. Even a custom .498 with .15 patch will go down tight but work well. I don't think Spanish barrels are inherently tight bored.

 

[apachesx2]

Guten Morgen,
Have you micrometered the barrel with a set of calipers? I would suspect .530 or .535 wouldn't be a problem since they are the standard for use in in a 54 caliber. Even if Italians like to make things small a large company like CVA of which I have in 50 cal with a Spanish barrel has to have certain standards to make it a 54 caliber. Are you a member of a German Blackpowder Club maybe someone would let you try a couple sizes. My experience has been no two guns from the same Manufacture and model shoot exactly the same and each set up has a variety of variables.

 

[azmntman]

:hmm: I bought .58 Hawken rifles (2) for me and my pop. Consecutive serail #'s from Invest Arms. His liked 80 gr and a pillow ticking patch (this was before I got here and learned about sizes) and mine really like .75 gr? I believe EACH rifle will have a favorite load no matter the make or place in production line. If I shot mine with 80 gr it would open up the grouo notably, same with his shooting my 75 grains. Were talking 2" vs 4-5" at 90 yds :idunno:

 

[Klaus]

Dear Gent´s

thx to all :hatsoff:

i will find the right way by try and error

The Rifle has been ordered and i beeing hopefully it`s way to me.
In Germany it is very seldom to find a MR with a larger Caliber as .45 .
I post some pics when i got it

regards Klaus

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hello Klaus,
When you get your rifle and have a good idea of the bore size, you can purchase a LEE mould.
They are not expensive, and cast very well.
When you cast 100 balls, you will have saved enough to pay for the cost of the mould.
The biggest effort you have to do is find lots of pure lead, to cast your bullets.
Lead is getting harder and harder to find, so, you never have enough lead.
You can go to "ebay" and search " Lee round ball bullet mould"
Be careful of the shipping charges wherever you go.
Fred

 

[mooman76]

Generally .010 under bore or caliber size is a good place to start. Unfortunately Lee for some reason doesn't make a round ball mould that size. I can use the Lee with my 54but it is a bit tight. I don't have much pure lead and any lead with alloy in it comes out a couple thousandths larger which doesn't help. I have a Ardesa but my is 36 caliber. I got it used. It didn't shoot that great at first, I think that may be why I got it cheap, but the more I play and shoot it, it shoots a little better each time I go out shooting.

Good luck!

 

[William O.]

Good Morning

pls allow me asking for a Ball Size issue

following common information the Ball Size for CVA/Ardesa Barrels are often smaler as for italian made barrels.

My Cal.45 Kentucky or Mountain Rifle shoot better with .440 as with .445 balls

will this have a validity for CVA / Ardesa Cal.54 Barrels also?

thx for your experiences

Klaus from Cologne

Hello Klaus (Guten Morgen)

As far as determining the best diameter round ball for your 54 caliber muzzle loader, the best way is to use a micrometer to measure the groove to groove measurement of the bore. If you do not have a micrometer or access to one then I suggest that you start with the .530 round ball along with patching material that is .015 thick. Take note of how easily the patched ball goes down the bore. Be sure to put powder down first though!
If the patched round ball (PRB) seats easily then you will probably need to increase the thickness. Moderate resistance is normal and with practice you will know what that is for your rifle. Much resistance or the need to use a mallet to get the PRB seated means your patch is too thick. Another way to figure this out is to "read" your patches after each shot. Patching material that is burned through, torn or shredded generally indicated the need for thicker material.
Now, my 54 caliber rifles both require .530 ball along with either .015 or .018 patching material. The older one of the two is a semi custom rifle that uses a Lyman barrel. They are made by Investarms of Italy to this may not compare well with your Spanish made barrel, but here's what I've found. I started shooting the older rifle with .530 ball and .015 patches which gave good accuracy. Resistance to ramming the PRB down the barrel was moderate for the first 100 shots or so. Then it got a bit easier and I thought it was just a result of the bore getting polished, which was partly true. Accuracy remained the same; good but not great. I thought it was just me and that I just needed to get better. After a while I changed patch material, tried different lubes and even tried lead conical bullets. Then I was advised to find some thicker patching material, which was mattress ticking. Lightly compressed it measures .018 thick and I also learned how to cut the patch at the muzzle. It was only then that this rifle started shooting excellent groups consistently. On a side note, I've found that at least when used in my .54 rifles, the .535 RB requires a very thin patch in order to be loaded with the use of a mallet and the accuracy or mediocre at best. However, you should try some in your rifle if you can't get good accuracy using the .530, just remember to start with a thinner patch.

I hope this helps answer your question and that you get to shoot your muzzle loader often and well.