greetings from Alpine, east of el cajon. shoot on my property (600 yd range). New to this cap and ball sport waiting on my first one to arrive. Been a center fire guy for 60+yrs. Looking forward to this new sport. Only shoot steel and paper now.
California
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Greetings from NorCal, specifically Butte County. No hunting, but I do shoot cap and ball revolvers and a percussion rifle (once I get it working again.) It would be nice to find somewhere that actually carries real black powder out this way but no luck so far. No clubs around here that I'm aware of, I'm usually the one guy making smoke out at Oroville Public Range "Clay Pit" out on Rabe road. That venue gets a little 'intense' so I'd love to find somewhere else. Cheers!
greeting from Kern co. have a nice range here and a bp club in ridgecrest
Howdy from Lake Tahoe. Brushy Creek Rangers is holding their annual Rendezvous May 5-7.
Hello
I have 1975 TC .50 Hawken and I'm wanting to use here in CA. I purchased the TomBob Outdoors’ ITX muzzleloading round balls, but have not fired yet. I tried contacting TomBob a while back, however, they could not provide any load or ballistic info.
Question: Has anyone on here tried these and have any info regarding load and patch? Does anyone know of any other product I can use legally in this gun?
Thanks
Chris
I have 1975 TC .50 Hawken and I'm wanting to use here in CA. I purchased the TomBob Outdoors’ ITX muzzleloading round balls, but have not fired yet. I tried contacting TomBob a while back, however, they could not provide any load or ballistic info.
Question: Has anyone on here tried these and have any info regarding load and patch? Does anyone know of any other product I can use legally in this gun?
Thanks
Chris
ITX is very accurate. Shoots the same as lead out to 100 yards in my .50 woodsman. Same powder charge as whatever you use for lead but it will likely need a thinner patch since it's really hard. Don't count on any expansion. Think of it has performing like hard cast lead. If you happen to recover a ball, you'll likely be able to just clean it off & fire it again and again. The ones I've pulled out of the dirt are barely scratched & weigh exactly the same as before I shot them. Mind your backstop, though -- ricochet potential is high since it won't deform. Yes, you're good to go with that as a lead-free alternative since ITX is an approved shot for shotguns too.
An alternative is to cast your own from bismuth alloy. I've done a write up on my results there on a couple of posts. The bismuth alloy from rotometals is also approved by CDFW. I cast mine with a .480 mould and run a thicker patch than I do with .490 lead. I've since cast up some hard lead at .480 and it all seems to work just fine with the same patch as bismuth at that size. I've not taken ITX hunting but I took a small coastal buck last year with the bismuth ball. It was close at about 15 yards. And it was a frontal shot. He dropped on the spot & I recovered the ball in the femur while butchering. It had some small gouges in the ball so I just put it back in the melting pot. ITX would have likely performed about the same but just been less damaged, if at all. For javelina last spring, I took the hard cast lead. It blew through like the little pig wasn't even there, taking out the heart dead center on its way to the dirt behind it. That pig dropped in about 10 seconds once his brain quit working but otherwise didn't seem to notice that he was hit. I'd expect ITX and bismuth to do about the same -- all penetration and no expansion. My loads are 70g 2F (or the same of Pyrodex) or 80g homebrew and I get about 1600 fps +/-. I've pushed them faster with up to 95 grains Pyrodex but was losing accuracy. My rear sight is adjusted as low as it gets anyway and those loads were just impacting higher and higher.
The ITX is more consistent by weight and more accurate for me than my home cast. But it's not enough to notice for hunting purposes. Only a benchrest test can show me any difference at all.
One other alternative is Thor bullets. Barnes makes them. I've taken a smaller coastal buck with that one & wasn't that impressed. It's very accurate and expands at close ranges as long as the velocity is high. But at distance (say 50 yards and further), it just performs like a hardcast again -- just .50 holes through and through. I loaded mine with 90g Pyrodex for about 1550 fps. I had to take a follow up shot from about 10' away and that one expanded nicely. Shoots the same as a popular lead belted conical that's popular with unmentionables.
Over the last few years, there have also been some other lead free conicals hitting the market but I don't have any experience with those yet. Maybe if I get a ML elk tag one of these years, I'll test them out. I'd guess that a stoutly loaded 300+ gr copper would do nicely for larger game.
A little while back, I posted up some ITX .487 balls for sale. I had stocked up on some packs of them before getting into casting my own so I don't need them anymore. If you want more ITX at a little discount from retail, shoot me a PM and we can work something out.
Thank you for the very thorough reply. You're the first person Ive run into that has used this product extensively. I also like the idea of casting bismuth too. Is your barrel 1:48 twist? Or does that matter?
Yep. Both of my .50 rifles have 1:48 twists.
If you cast some bismuth alloy, just be aware that it will expand 0.002" after cooling. So they're a pain to get out of the mould and that .480 ball ends up measuring about 0.482 once cooled off. Temps are lower too -- 550 or so is just perfect for the bismuth alloy while alloyed lead wants 650-700. Personally, I prefer casting the bismuth because I can do it on an electric hot plate and it's much more forgiving.
rshveyda
40 Cal
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Please expand on range in Kern Co. and bp club in Ridgecrest. I've moved twice in the last couple of years and went from North Idaho to East Washington and now back to Frazier Park, CA to help my elderly father. I feel like I've gone from the land of the free to the land of "What!?! You own a gun! No shooting around here!"
EDIT: Found the range way out in Ridgecrest that has a CAS club. Nice, but a long way from Frazier Park. Still looking and appreciative of any tips. Thanks!
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Oaktree Gun Club
I live in same area and I'm looking into Oak Tree as a possibility.
also check this place: HOME - Angeles Shooting Ranges
CoastComanche
32 Cal
Hello!
I am from Orange County, California
I have family in San Diego, and spend time near fresno alot!
Work in Los Angeles
I am from Orange County, California
I have family in San Diego, and spend time near fresno alot!
Work in Los Angeles
Welcome. I'm in the central valley. Cheers!
Manic Mike
32 Cal
Greetings All,
Like CoastComanche, I'm stuck in Orange County with family in San Diego also! We shoot at West End Gun Club and the Desert. I have Brand New .22's and 4 gauge Blunderbusses here. And literally Everything in between. I'm moving into Muzzle Loading because I like the noise and smoke as much as hitting a target out past 1,000 yards. I'm looking for a full size Cannon, like something used in the Civil war, if anyone has one for sale.
Manic Mike
Like CoastComanche, I'm stuck in Orange County with family in San Diego also! We shoot at West End Gun Club and the Desert. I have Brand New .22's and 4 gauge Blunderbusses here. And literally Everything in between. I'm moving into Muzzle Loading because I like the noise and smoke as much as hitting a target out past 1,000 yards. I'm looking for a full size Cannon, like something used in the Civil war, if anyone has one for sale.
Manic Mike
CoastComanche
32 Cal
this was very informative, thank you. Really looking to invest into something nice. Curious, If you had any recommendations for a rifle. I have so far iv been looking into Lymans Dear Stalker, T/C Hawkens all in 50. Hard to bite on anything because of the nature of California law. Im not sure which twist rate to choose. Iv only been recommended thor bullets going to seminars at bass pro, some of these guys swear by them. Its refreshing to read that bismuth is a safe alternative for casting my own. Looking forward to reading your posts!
Thank you again
I've only shot a handful of rifles/smoothbores so I wouldn't say I'm experienced enough to make good recommendations for others. I've tried flintlocks and can't yet commit to the training I'll need to avoid flinching. Besides, flints are harder to come by than the beer cans & ingredients I use to make my own caps.
Go with what you enjoy looking at, carrying and shooting (probably in reverse order there). I like the esthetic of a full stock longrifle best. And I shoot my percussion kentucky rifle more than any other. But my Hawken (Traditions Woodsman) still gets more time in the field because it's shorter and handier. That's a big plus when I'm hiking in several miles through brushy terrain to camp out for a week. If you think crawling on all 4s with a 40-lb pack to get under & over a bunch of logs is hard enough, try it with a rifle that sticks up 2' over your pack. Now add the weight of a carcass on your back... I'll take the sub-30" barrel, thank you.
For less densely brushed terrain including AZ javelina hunts, I'll take the kentucky. I just like it better. I did add some fiber sights (*gasp*) to help my eyes a little. Not period correct but certainly better for me to shoot. That kind of thing can be worked out over time as you learn what you like or don't.
What about CA law keeps you from buying a ML? They're not legally firearms so just pick one you like & get it shipped to your door. Plenty to choose from on this forum too. Pyrodex & other sub powders are widely available. I like real black best but use mostly my own homebrew nowadays since it's so hard to find and gets expensive after a while.
Twist rates are the standard stuff -- slower twist (1:66, 1:72, etc.) = better for round ball. Faster twist (1:32, 1:24, etc.) better for conicals, sabots, etc. In between (1:48) can be good for both, depending on the bullet & the load.
I hope that helps a little.
In my (limited) experience, sporting goods people really have no clue about traditional stuff. It's similar to traditional archery vs compounds. Usually, they've heard of Thor but haven't really compared options for traditional guns and have zero interest in DIY kind of stuff. Most couldn't even tell you that a .50 barnes bullet in a sabot is actually a .45. They just know it's lead free and says .50 on the package. They might know everything about twist rates on a centerfire but haven't the first idea what ML twist rates can or can't do.
Casting your own is like fletching your own arrows & carving your own bows. Few people will try and most think it's either akin to witchcraft or just some kind of weird and nutty thing that doesn't make any sense in our day and age. To me, there's something very satisfying about making my own stuff. I appreciate just how much can be done on a home scale vs having to buy everything all the time.
bronzeSky
32 Cal
Really fascinating information, thanks a lot for sharing your experience. Haven't had the opportunity to hunt with a smokepole yet, just been doing patterning/target shooting, so hearing of the lead alternatives performing well is great.
