Can anyone shed a bit of light on this Brown Bess?

[Brown bess from India]

Greetings all , please feel free to move this to the relevant sub forum if I am posting this in the wrong one.

This rifle has been in the family for a while

but apart from it being a brown Bess little is known. Can anyone help shed light on it ?

The length comes in at 52 inches and I took pictures of any markings I could find.

 

[Joshua Grubaugh]

3rd model brown Bess or at least it looks like it.

 

[ArmorerRoy]

I have one just like it. It’s a very late 3rd model.

Mine came from an Afghanistan bazaar with a bayonet.

 

[2 shots]

does not seem to be a bess at all, although i dont know what pattern it is off hand. some sort of
"new land" pattern maybe?? look at pictures of a 3rd pattern bees for reference.most notable is the stock.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Well, it sure doesn’t look like a Brown Bess musket. Not sure what it is! But what struck me about it right off is what is going on with the side plate and the rear lock bolt?

 

[ArmorerRoy]

Well, it sure doesn’t look like a Brown Bess musket. Not sure what it is! But what struck me about it right off is what is going on with the side plate and the rear lock bolt?

My gun is like that too. The bolt it too far back. I have seen a few that way.

 

[WalnutRed]

Khyber Pass copy of a 3rd Model?

 

[David LaPell]

The lock looks like a post East India pattern gun, but the stock looks very different than the last one I saw.

 

[Dismount]

Greetings all , please feel free to move this to the relevant sub forum if I am posting this in the wrong one.

This rifle has been in the family for a while View attachment 372590but apart from it being a brown Bess little is known. Can anyone help shed light on it ?

The length comes in at 52 inches and I took pictures of any markings I could find.

 

[Dismount]

looks like an officers long arm. not made for regular infantry if so really rare I think

 

[WalnutRed]

I hope this is a rare and authentic firearm. However to me that Crown V looks like a copy of a London view mark, not an actual Crown V London view mark.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Greetings all , please feel free to move this to the relevant sub forum if I am posting this in the wrong one.

This rifle has been in the family for a while View attachment 372590but apart from it being a brown Bess little is known. Can anyone help shed light on it ?

The length comes in at 52 inches and I took pictures of any markings I could find.

does not seem to be a bess at all, although i dont know what pattern it is off hand. some sort of
"new land" pattern maybe?? look at pictures of a 3rd pattern bees for reference.most notable is the stock.

My gun is like that too. The bolt it too far back. I have seen a few that way.

The lock looks like a post East India pattern gun, but the stock looks very different than the last one I saw.

That's because folks, it's a re-stock of a Third Model aka India Pattern Bess.


The lock and barrel show clear signs of having had a buffing wheel of some type applied to them as well as probably Naval Jelly to remove the rust. Then the parts were placed into the newer stock, and the stock was also finished. Voila, a 3rd model Bess in rather good condition save for the lock and barrel engraving. International Military Antiques still sells replacement 3rd Model stocks, and original parts as replacement cocks and frizzens. Sometimes, IF the rebuilder took the time to clean the interior of the barrel, they can sometimes actually be fired.

LD

 

[ArtyGunner]

1808 Pattern Brown Bess.

 

[2 shots]

IMA 'bess' stocks dont look anything like a real brown bess stock they are more new land pattern. take ima descriptions with a grain of salt . look at any 1st - 3rd pattern bess , they have chair rail stocks. every gun that comes out of england is not a brown bess.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Sure looks like the model 1808 pattern Brown Bess. Except for that side plate thingy.

 

[2 shots]

just seems to most collectors that a bess has a chair rail stock .the style you show is more new pattern ,not long, short or india pattern. look up new pattern muskets... . maybe some of our English friends or dave person will add to this. again most will say ima takes some liberty with their descriptions. not tryin to burst anyones bubble.keep in mind that there never was a tower made musket officially called a brown bess. so i guess anyone could attach the name to anything and be correct because it was a made up name....

 

[ArmorerRoy]

My gun is definitely a mystery. It could easily be a crude copy made in Pakistan. I got mine overseas for really cheap so it’s value is sentimental. The barrel is clear and the lock sparks. I haven’t fired it though.

 

[sturmkatze]

Well, it sure doesn’t look like a Brown Bess musket. Not sure what it is! But what struck me about it right off is what is going on with the side plate and the rear lock bolt?

Yes it does. I think It’sa sub continent it Afghani city of a third pattern, but different cock on the lock.

Screw in side plate… they fall out anyway. This is a great idea

 

[FlinterNick]

Greetings all , please feel free to move this to the relevant sub forum if I am posting this in the wrong one.

This rifle has been in the family for a while View attachment 372590but apart from it being a brown Bess little is known. Can anyone help shed light on it ?

The length comes in at 52 inches and I took pictures of any markings I could find.

Private contract third model brown Bess, looks like it may have been restocked, the flat side plate is odd, usually these were rounded over.

The view mark looks like a private stamp, not a military ordinance stamp.

 

[FlinterNick]

That's because folks, it's a re-stock of a Third Model aka India Pattern Bess.


The lock and barrel show clear signs of having had a buffing wheel of some type applied to them as well as probably Naval Jelly to remove the rust. Then the parts were placed into the newer stock, and the stock was also finished. Voila, a 3rd model Bess in rather good condition save for the lock and barrel engraving. International Military Antiques still sells replacement 3rd Model stocks, and original parts as replacement cocks and frizzens. Sometimes, IF the rebuilder took the time to clean the interior of the barrel, they can sometimes actually be fired.

LD

Yeap, restocked, the stock looks like an American design too.