Can I improve this?

[M. De Land]

I have the white lightning liners but don't care for the interior cone that vectors chamber pressure outward. The ones I make for my guns have the cone milled into the exterior to vector the pan flash inward and discourage the outward flow of gas. I've been burned several times by the exaggerated jet blast of flame sent out to the side from WL liners. That said, they do work to increase pan flash efficiency but mine seem to work just as well without as much blast outward .

 

[Joemolf]

I should mention that I was trying out a new method of fouling control by dry brushing between shots as opposed to a spit patch mop out every ten shots and very likely was the real cause of the crud/fouling build up on the breech face after only 30 shots.

I expect to swab any rifle eventually. I have had great success with Swiss powders. When plug face fouling did occur it was due to the Shutzen powder I purchased. So I won’t be using it except in paper cartridges for the Bess or Charleville where the undersized ball and picking the vent keeps it running. It is amazing the difference in fouling I’ve gotten but nothing boiling water can’t handle. I used it in a 40 cal rifle once and after the first shot I was hanging on the range rod to seat the ball; I was amazed. If able when available put the price aside and buy Swiss or Swiss Caviar which is even better.

 

[Joemolf]

Remove touch hole liner. Counter bore plug face or radius if you want, but make a scraper to fit. Dry fit liner and contour to bore ID and file or ream about 1/16 in of the lands at breech face to bore dia. Remove liner/ install plug then liner. Problem solved without moving anything or compromising plug to barrel seal anymore than the last guy done.

Nicely done love it!

 

[Joemolf]

What did Rice say?

I spoke to Rice this morning common issue with some of the kit guns. They assemble the breech plug to the barrel for TOTW. I was told not to take any material off the face of the plug. The fix as recommended here on the forum is to counter bore the face and correct the existing notch. Polish the notch and new face up and it will be safe and fast. Should not be a big deal. So when I get home this weekend I’ll get on it.

All thanks for great advice there’s obviously a number of ways this can be addressed. Being I have a stout drill press and counterbores that will be the way I’m going. Finally after this; this Lancaster Rifle will be what it’s supposed to be.

 

[EC121]

Before you bother with a scraper, go to Muzzle Loader Builders Supply and get a breech face brush. One of those with a wet patch on it will form to the breech face well. The bristles poke through the patch and scrape while the patch wipes. I have one on a dedicated wooden rod. Get two or three because the bronze bristles will corrode if not rinsed.

 

[bang]

Figure how far down the hole is from the front of the plug. Get à piece of tubing to go in the barrel. Weld a drill on a rod and counter bore the plug to the figured depth. Finish drilling the touch hole into the counter bore if needed.

 

[Joemolf]

Figure how far down the hole is from the front of the plug. Get à piece of tubing to go in the barrel. Weld a drill on a rod and counter bore the plug to the figured depth. Finish drilling the touch hole into the counter bore if needed.

I’m going to remove the breech plug put it in a vice and do it. I’ve removed plugs before but not on this barrel. I have had good success simply soaking it overnight with Kroil so and one rifle I removed the breach plug from was built in 1980. Reassembled you would never know the breah plug was removed. The barrel had a purple plum kind of color I was worried about but literally went back together just the same. Kroil is good stuff!

 

[Joemolf]

Before you bother with a scraper, go to Muzzle Loader Builders Supply and get a breech face brush. One of those with a wet patch on it will form to the breech face well. The bristles poke through the patch and scrape while the patch wipes. I have one on a dedicated wooden rod. Get two or three because the bronze bristles will corrode if not rinsed.

I will do that thanks for the info!

 

[EC121]

I checked their site and couldn't find them. So, I sent an email asking about availability. Film at 11.

UPDATE 3:03pm!! MBS says they are out of them and don't plan to restock them.

 

[Kansas Kid]

Brushes and scrapers make a happy and clean gun. I make my brushes with stiff nylon bristles. Gun is clean when a light is cast down the bore and it reflects back off of the shiny breech face.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Joemolf, I am sure you have made an index mark that you can use to align the breech plug to the barrel. I mark all my breeches even though after final installation, I have no plans to pull them.

 

[Joemolf]

I checked their site and couldn't find them. So, I sent an email asking about availability. Film at 11.

Yes I looked also. Thank you!

It’s really hard too “clock” a plug back into position once material has been removed from both the plug and the barrel …..

Don’t ask me how I know….

i have successfully done on both round and hex barrels. Wish me luck!

 

[Joemolf]

@Joemolf, I am sure you have made an index mark that you can use to align the breech plug to the barrel. I mark all my breeches even though after final installation, I have no plans to pull them.

Rice assembled the breech to the Barrel for TOTW and have added the index mark. I know this because I purchased the kit sometime after with same barrel. I hope to someday build it. I now know of one potential problem.

 

[Joemolf]

Remove touch hole liner. Counter bore plug face or radius if you want, but make a scraper to fit. Dry fit liner and contour to bore ID and file or ream about 1/16 in of the lands at breech face to bore dia. Remove liner/ install plug then liner. Problem solved without moving anything or compromising plug to barrel seal anymore than the last guy done.

Exactly what The manufacture suggests! I’ll be doing the same

 

[Joemolf]

Yes I looked also. Thank you!

i have successfully done on both round and hex barrels. Wish me luck!

To be clear I will not be removing any material from the barrel

 

[BadDaditood]

Correct, you don’t want to mess with an indexed plug and bbl.
Just dish out the plug face, cut a slot to the vent then polish it. Should fire a lot better.
If you’re using something like a Chambers White Lightning, test fit it first with plug out, file flush to inside. (I learned this the hard way! My jag hit the liner- had to drill it out, debreech plug and fit a new liner)
Like Grenadier I had to do the above on a TRS Harpers Ferry.
I’m convinced the modern plugs are longer than originals. A bud recently ordered a Harpers Ferry from TRS, when I told him what I had to do he called Jane to ask if there was any work around with their precarved stocks, she said all their measurements and parts are copied exactly from originals.

 

[Spikebuck]

I checked their site and couldn't find them. So, I sent an email asking about availability. Film at 11.

UPDATE 3:03pm!! MBS says they are out of them and don't plan to restock them.

Looks like Log Cabin Shop has them.

http://logcabinshop.com/oc30/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=24884

 

[Joemolf]

Correct, you don’t want to mess with an indexed plug and bbl.
Just dish out the plug face, cut a slot to the vent then polish it. Should fire a lot better.
If you’re using something like a Chambers White Lightning, test fit it first with plug out, file flush to inside. (I learned this the hard way! My jag hit the liner- had to drill it out, debreech plug and fit a new liner)
Like Grenadier I had to do the above on a TRS Harpers Ferry.
I’m convinced the modern plugs are longer than originals. A bud recently ordered a Harpers Ferry from TRS, when I told him what I had to do he called Jane to ask if there was any work around with their precarved stocks, she said all their measurements and parts are copied exactly from originals.

So they were inherently incorrect? That is touch hole behind the or close to the breech plug face? I don’t buy that. I’ve watched guys build from blank and there’s no interference with the the touch hole and breech plug. Did the breech plug face require notching. To me that is poor workmanship. They may have copied originals but did the lock have the same dimensions? I’ll bet the pan was more forward. Look at Kimbler newest kits the flash hole is forward of the breech face ; why because if you ask Jim he planned it that way. The placement of the lock is key though different locks design can vary I’m guessing. Just my opinion. I learned the hard way with this rifle I didn’t have a bore sight and took it for granted it was a fine rifle. After I get this one fixed I’m going to let builder know about his shoddy workmanship. I should not be the one counterboring the breech plug he should have before he put it up for sale. He had to know there was a problem when he drilled the touch hole and hit the breech plug . Like I said Shoddy. Finish looks nice.

I still haven’t left NH trying to recover from spine surgery late October and I’m still in a lot of pain. So thinking next weekend I will be able to tolerate the drive home. to get it apart and have a good laugh though the laugh is on me. Pay a lot for a rifle with high end components and it’s a Dud but not for long I will fix it.

 

[BadDaditood]

So they were inherently incorrect? That is touch hole behind the or close to the breech plug face? I don’t buy that. I’ve watched guys build from blank and there’s no interference with the the touch hole and breech plug. Did the breech plug face require notching. To me that is poor workmanship. They may have copied originals but did the lock have the same dimensions? I’ll bet the pan was more forward. Look at Kimbler newest kits the flash hole is forward of the breech face ; why because if you ask Jim he planned it that way. The placement of the lock is key though different locks design can vary I’m guessing. Just my opinion. I learned the hard way with this rifle I didn’t have a bore sight and took it for granted it was a fine rifle. After I get this one fixed I’m going to let builder know about his shoddy workmanship. I should not be the one counterboring the breech plug he should have before he put it up for sale. He had to know there was a problem when he drilled the touch hole and hit the breech plug . Like I said Shoddy. Finish looks nice.

I still haven’t left NH trying to recover from spine surgery late October and I’m still in a lot of pain. So thinking next weekend I will be able to tolerate the drive home. to get it apart and have a good laugh though the laugh is on me. Pay a lot for a rifle with high end components and it’s a Dud but not for long I will fix it.

Sorry about your purchase, hope you are feeling better soon.
Not inherently incorrect. What I was getting at is breech plugs back the were much shorter than now, therefore they didn’t have the problem we do having to hack into the plug.
Building from a plank all that is avoidable.
Let me illustrate: original plug 3/8” long, vent located 1/2” from breech end of barrel, no problem.
New plug 5/8” long, vent located 1/2” from end of barrel- hole hits beech plug.
TRS copied the outer dimensions of their original Harpers Ferry rifles, and they mortised for lock accordingly.
Naturally the vent hole hits the longer modern plug. Fun.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'll have to admit, when I discovered that the touch hole for my (TRS) 1803 Harper's Ferry was going to hit the breech plug, I stopped working on the kit for about 2 years as I agonized over that interference. Finally, after asking a lot of experienced builders, both in my gun club and other nationally recognized builders, I cut the notch in the breech plug. I have a drilled touch hole that I was able to do an internal cone. The ignition is very fast, and I really enjoy shooting my 1803.