can i please see your cherry stocks finished with oven cleaner,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[excess650]

Does the lye just speed up the darkening process that cherry naturally does, or does it also make it darker than than just UV exposure will do?

As I mentioned, lye reacts with the tannic acid in the wood to change the color. UV light is supposed to do the same, but I put cherry scales on a knife 5+ years ago, applied BLO, and it NEVER changed color or darkened. Conversely, I had a block of wood leftover from a stock that I experimented with. I applied the lye solution, kept brushing it on until I thought it was as dark as desired, and rinsed. When dry, it was noticeably lighter, so I did the other side, but left the lye solution dry on the wood. I put Minwax tung oil finish on it, and it is a beautiful dark red. I have no idea how long it would take UV light to turn cherry a darker, deep red, but lye can make it happen in a few hours; just the time it takes for the treated wood to dry.

Red Devil lye is commonly available at hardware stores as drain cleaner. I make soap so source it (sodium hydroxide) elsewhere in quantity.

Dave's approach is different in that he uses dyes to get the color he wants. Some old guns have red varnish on them, so there are differnt ways to achieve the desired result.

 

[excess650]

No disrespect sir , I don't understand the logic of using chemical processes on wood where the end result cannot be predicted. Looking at hundreds of old examples of cherry wood furniture , I've never seen any that was blackened. To each his own...........oldwood

Lye doesn't make cherry black in the concentration mentioned.

 

[dave_person]

Can we see a full length shot and get details of the last rifle. It looks like an middle eastern influence.

Hi Roundball,
No, it is meant to be a French snaphaunce from the about 1600 converted to a type 1 English lock. Most of those early English locks were converted snaphaunces. The decorative designs are inspired by the early flintlock gun by one of the Lebourgeoy family in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY and the Pierre Lebourgeoy gun shown in Gusler and Lavins's book "Decorated Firearms". It has no relationship with any middle eastern guns.

dave

 

[Roundball2319]

Hi Roundball,
No, it is meant to be a French snaphaunce from the about 1600 converted to a type 1 English lock. Most of those early English locks were converted snaphaunces. The decorative designs are inspired by the early flintlock gun by one of the Lebourgeoy family in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY and the Pierre Lebourgeoy gun shown in Gusler and Lavins's book "Decorated Firearms". It has no relationship with any middle eastern guns.

dave

It's gorgeous. Thank you for the information and the added picture.

 

[rocullen]

With woods of high tannin, you can also build a "tent" and ammoniate(with the fumes---why the tent)
The longer you leave it fumigating the darker it gets..

 

[rich pierce]

As an FYI, aquafortis or ferric nitrate turns cherry black, same as it does for many oaks and walnut. Handy for when you want something black as ebony.

 

[OhioHawkeye]

Excess650 nailed it. I used dilute lye. Some oven cleaners have no lye anymore and are useless for staining cherry.

True and why you have to read the contents, or go so far as to pull the MSDS on the product. the Heavy duty, or extra strength oven cleaner is what you are looking for... even the one sold at Dollar Tree has that,,, and it's a buck

 

[Loyalist Dave]

When did they start using Sodium Hydroxide for stocks, btw?

LD

 

[rich pierce]

When did they start using Sodium Hydroxide for stocks, btw?

LD

Hard to know when strong bases were first used to stain cherry. Lye was clearly used to stain cherry furniture in the mid to late 1800s. Whenever a cherry piece has a real reddish hue, as opposed to a deep warm brown tone, lye was used.

 

[Kabulrocks]

With woods of high tannin, you can also build a "tent" and ammoniate(with the fumes---why the tent)
The longer you leave it fumigating the darker it gets..

That is how the white oak used in arts&crafts/craftsman/Stickley furniture gets that nice golden oak color. Never heard about using lye with cherry but have wondered why some cherry furniture is a deep red color, and sometimes a dark brown. I keep learning new things on this forum.

 

[ord sgt]

I put together this cherry wood rifle almost 40 years ago and I don't remember what type of finish that I used. This was my first build and I had never heard of using lye to stain the wood. I may have used a Minwax stain but I am not sure now. I do like the grain of cherry wood.

 

[jimairwin]

AH...,
So you use a lye solution, and not a can of Easy Off. OK that makes more sense. They used nitric acid to react with minerals in maple so why not another chemical to react with minerals in cherrywood?

I wonder...,

The lye in the 18th century would've been potassium hydroxide from wood ashes, not sodium hydroxide. Does potassium hydroxide give a different result? It does when you make soap with it.

LD

Using liquid base such as Easy Off is a rather brutal approach and likely gives low penetration into the wood. Furniture makers use ammonia in a closed environment. Vapors penetrate w/o raising grain. Takes some time, hours to a day or so, so is easy to control with observation. Oil rubbing after can lighten the effect somewhat.

 

[springfield art]

a friend and forum member here and i were talking about cherry wood. i told him i saw a few that had been colored or finished with oven cleaner and how nice they looked. can i see some photos of your cherry wood that have been done in the oven cleaner, or anything else to see how it compares,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I believe oven cleaner is basically just Lye?

 

[springfield art]

I put together this cherry wood rifle almost 40 years ago and I don't remember what type of finish that I used. This was my first build and I had never heard of using lye to stain the wood. I may have used a Minwax stain but I am not sure now. I do like the grain of cherry wood.View attachment 113464

Nice!

 

[Robby]

Olskool, I just took this picture of a fowler I made over twenty years ago, it is cherry treated with Aqua-fortis and rubbed back with 0000 steel wool. I have made quite a few guns and lathe turned horn caps from cherry and treated all of them the same. I'm not saying its better than lye, or worse, depending on someones sense of aesthetics, Hah, Its just an alternative. Depending on the piece of wood it will turn it anywhere from charcoal black to bright cherry red in my experience. I like it because under that black is what you see in the picture and it gives you a measure of control in rubbing it back, so a gun with carving can be greatly highlighted. I hope this isn't a distraction, good luck in your search!!

Robby

 

[Relic shooter]

Hi Olskool,
Lye mixed in water will redden and darken cherry as well as when used to neutralize aqua fortis on maple, will redden the color as well. However, you can get the reddish brown cherry you are looking for in other ways. The cherry stocked NE fowler below was first stained with dilute black aniline dye in water as part of the whiskering process. The black is scraped and sanded off as part of that process but black dye remains in the grain highlighting it. Next a mix of scarlet and brown aniline dyes dissolved in water to get the color I wanted. The last 3 photos show the original gun I copied and you can see how closely I got the color.

Here is another cherry stocked gun finished the same way.

Finally, another cherry stocked gun stained with aniline dyes to look like aged apple wood.

dave

NICE WORKMANSHIP !!!

 

[springfield art]

Olskool, I just took this picture of a fowler I made over twenty years ago, it is cherry treated with Aqua-fortis and rubbed back with 0000 steel wool. I have made quite a few guns and lathe turned horn caps from cherry and treated all of them the same. I'm not saying its better than lye, or worse, depending on someones sense of aesthetics, Hah, Its just an alternative. Depending on the piece of wood it will turn it anywhere from charcoal black to bright cherry red in my experience. I like it because under that black is what you see in the picture and it gives you a measure of control in rubbing it back, so a gun with carving can be greatly highlighted. I hope this isn't a distraction, good luck in your search!!
View attachment 113516
Robby

Beautiful, mellow, warm-looking stock!

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

I was curious about the oven cleaner as well, so I tried it out on my first build and couldn’t have been happier. I did sample on some scrap pieces first! Also you have to get the heavy duty oven cleaner to get the lye. I know lye in water will accomplish the same desired effects but around here pure lye is difficult to come by, oven cleaner is not. Below are some photos of my finished rifle it is a cherry kibler colonial. I did two applications of OC to get this color and they were very quick 3 mins per application and then it is washed away. I just used water and have had no ill effects on wood or finish over the top. Once I had the color I wanted I used several coats of hand rubbing tung oil then a paste was finish on top. Overall I’m really happy with how it turned out and would do it again. However my next built is going to be walnut!

Really like that red color on your first gun.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Olskool, I just took this picture of a fowler I made over twenty years ago, it is cherry treated with Aqua-fortis and rubbed back with 0000 steel wool. I have made quite a few guns and lathe turned horn caps from cherry and treated all of them the same. I'm not saying its better than lye, or worse, depending on someones sense of aesthetics, Hah, Its just an alternative. Depending on the piece of wood it will turn it anywhere from charcoal black to bright cherry red in my experience. I like it because under that black is what you see in the picture and it gives you a measure of control in rubbing it back, so a gun with carving can be greatly highlighted. I hope this isn't a distraction, good luck in your search!!
View attachment 113516
Robby

Beautiful color!

 

[Nor'Easter]

I was curious about the oven cleaner as well, so I tried it out on my first build and couldn’t have been happier. I did sample on some scrap pieces first! Also you have to get the heavy duty oven cleaner to get the lye. I know lye in water will accomplish the same desired effects but around here pure lye is difficult to come by, oven cleaner is not. Below are some photos of my finished rifle it is a cherry kibler colonial. I did two applications of OC to get this color and they were very quick 3 mins per application and then it is washed away. I just used water and have had no ill effects on wood or finish over the top. Once I had the color I wanted I used several coats of hand rubbing tung oil then a paste was finish on top. Overall I’m really happy with how it turned out and would do it again. However my next built is going to be walnut!

That is a pretty rifle. If you don't mind - what did you use to blue the lock?