can I shim a drum?

[oldarmy]

I have a pedersoli percussion rifle and the drum has come loose. I have to push it forward to get it to tighten up and then it doesn't line up with the hammer.
Can I put a shim between the drum and the barrel to get it to tighen up.
A thin lock washer maybe??
If not, what can I do to fix this problem?
As aways.
THANKS

 

[Black Hand]

The problem with a shim is that it will keep the drum from screwing all the way in. This could result in the nipple pointing the wrong way. What may work better is to bend the hammer until it aligns with the nipple.
Black Hand

 

[Doc Arroyo]

See if you can get a new drum with the correct thread for the barrel from one of the regular suppliers. Buy one without the nipple hole drilled. Fit the blank drum tight to the barrel, then mark it, drill it and tap it to align the nipple with the hammer.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

While not recomended, I have done just that. You'll need a very thin shim, probably not even .010".
My first ML rifle was a gift from a cousin and he wasn't so generous as that may sound. It was an Ohio half stock, what we called a Hawg Rifle. Back action lock with a hand forged nipple drum having small, course threads which were rusted and warn so loose I would wrap the threads with string to take up the slack before screwing it in. It seemed to work, but I probably never fired over 30 grains of 3f out of that old .36, though I did once shoot a carp with the fiberglass ramrod. :grin:
Anyone know the statute of limitations for carpslaughter in Ohio? Been 45 years, can I go back now? :hmm:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Short answer, yes. Been there, done that, way I did it, start with very thin shim stock, check nipple/hammer geometric positioning, use thicker shim if required, don't get western & over tighten.

 

[longfowler]

I don't know, I hear they hold their carp in pretty high esteem down there...beter not go back, just in case.
I had a old gun with a similar problem and made a shim out of a piece of sheet brass. it didn't have the original barrel, so I had to shim the drum out to line up with the hammer. It took a lot of filing to index the nipple but it worked good.

 

[boar]

Oldarmy Could you add alittle solder to shoulder. I use solder for loose sights.They have one that you brush on then heat. The solder would not be too hard so drum should tighten up. Just a thought. Dilly

 

[oldarmy]

thanks for all the replys.
I think I am going to try a very thin shim..
I am re-working the stock and will have picks when I am done.
I bought this a few years ago, before I knew about this forum. I sure wish I knew about this forum.
I wouldn't have wasted my money on factory guns that I have never been happy with.
and I could have bought me a beautiful handmade flintlock wih all the money I spent
anyway,
leasons learned

 

[Zonie]

Mind you, this is all guess work because I don't know what pitch of thread Pedersoli used on your rifles drum.
Assuming it is metric and perhaps a 8mm X 1.25 (.315 dia .049 pitch) one complete revolution will move the drum .049.
A .010 thick shim represents .203 of a full revolution or about 73 degrees of rotation with this thread pitch.
A .005 thick shim represents about 37 degrees of rotation with this thread pitch.

If you need less than 37 degrees of rotation (which is quite a lot) you might be best off trying the method where you add some solder to the face of the drum.
The only problem with this method is the solder will shear off as you tighten the drum to the correct position so it won't "load" the threads with much force. Because the threads are not "loaded", they will not be very tight so the drum might "back out" without much encouragement.

Another "fix" for your problem is to degrease the barrel and the drum threads.
Apply a light coating of JB Weld to the drum threads and screw it into the proper position.
Let it cure at least 24 hours before using it.
The drum will stay in place until you want to remove it. In fact, I would bet the only way to remove it would be to heat the breech up to about 600 degrees F and use some locking pliers.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Ditto Zonie, JB Weld rules on taking the heat and affixing things which leak or move, but shouldn't.

I think the radiator on my old 85 full sized Jimmy is more JB Weld than copper after all these years. :winking:

 

[2172]

I did it. I pounded a washer of the right size until it was thin enough for my purposes...don't recall any problems...later converted that rifle to flint, but it worked with the wssher for 10-15 years..Hank

 

[J.D.]

An alternate solution that will allow easy removal of the drum is to coat the face of the drum that mates with the barrel with a thin coating of JB Weld. Make a tight fitting washer of cellophane, and screw the drum almost in place, maybe a 1/4 turn from the proper position. Allow JB Weld to set, remove and properly fit the drum.

The only downside I can think of is not getting a good seal between the drum and barrel, which would require heating to loosen the JB.

Another thought is to coat the side of the barrel and the threads of the drum with a good paste wax, as a release agent.

This might allow for screwing the drum to within a 1/6th of a turn of the proper position, then finish tightening the drum to load the threads after the JB sets.

Just kinda thinking...typing out loud, so to speak.

J.D.

 

[mikelange]

An alternative to JB Weld or solder, if you know someone with an arc welder, is to have them apply several small beads to the back of the drum. This will prevent the drum from threading in as far as it needs to. Use a small file to gradually work the beads down until the drum seats exactly where you want it to.

 

[walruskid1]

Anyone know the statute of limitations for carpslaughter in Ohio? Been 45 years, can I go back now?

you can come back joe, all is forgiven. the carp had it comin' anyway.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Anyone know the statute of limitations for carpslaughter in Ohio? Been 45 years, can I go back now?

you can come back joe, all is forgiven. the carp had it comin' anyway.

Well, I guess I thought so at the time. It was one of those fiberglass rods like they tie potted plants up to, about 5/16" and made a swell rod for that old clunker rifle. Abrasive as could be, I'm sure, but there wasn't much left of the bore anyhow. The rod pinned that carp to the mud bottom of Sugar Creek just as pretty as any arrow. :grin:

 

[khwils]

Oldarmy, I tried to make a shim for a drum that wasn't lining up for me but it stuck out of the side of the drum and didn't look very good. It also wouldn't hold the drum from turning?? I ended up wrapping copper electrical wire around the drum threads until I had enough to "shim" it out far enough. This took a couple of trial and error tries before I got it right. It didn't stick out and you couldn't see the "shim" material but..... It didn't hold either, it won't stay tight. I kind of gave up on it until I read this thread. I think I will redo it with some locktite first, If that doesn't work then I'll use the JBWeld. Thanks, Kurt/IL

 

[Zonie]

Just to cover my tail, allow me to say that my recommendation concerning the JB Weld is based on the idea that the existing threads in the barrel and on the drum are in good condition but just slightly worn.

If the threads meet this requirement, they will be taking all of the thrust which is trying to blow the drum out of the barrel when the gun is fired. The JB will only be working as a thread lock and sealent.

If the threads are rusted away, crossthreaded or stripped I would say the barrel should be rethreaded for a larger thread size and a new drum fitted.

(I know that you already know that but them dam pesky lawyers are always looking for someone to sue. :cursing: )

 

[khwils]

Zonie, After reading your "disclaimer" I wondered if it was about my post - no offense taken. I reread my post and it isn't very clear. I DIDN'T use the elec. copper wire to "tighten" up the threads of the drum. The barrel and drum are brand new and in perfect shape, the nipple just doesn't line up with the hammer. I wrapped the elec (BTW I'm talking about only a few strands of wire here) around the drum at the face of the drum shoulder to form a shim. This method completely hid my shim. Is that clearer? My issue remained that I could get it aligned correctly but it still would loosen up after a couple of shots. I think the loctite will cure that. Thanks, Kurt/IL

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I think the problem, Kirt, is that copper is just too soft. It continues to "forge" out from the impact of the hammer on the drum. I'd suggest making a washer of thin steel shim stock. Just get a cheap set of feeler gages from Checker Auto or Wallyworld. Select the gage that is a tight fit and make a washer out of it. A few bucks and you still can use all the other fingers of the gage. :grin:

 

[Zonie]

Kurt/IL: No, it wasn't about your post. It was clear to me that you were basically creating a copper spacer between the side of the barrel and the drums face.
Your experiance and CoyoteJoes comments relate well with my earlier comment about using solder to fill in the space. Solder and copper shims/spacers are just too soft and will work loose.

The reason I posted my second responce is I got to thinking, someone might read my first post about the JB Weld and think,
"Why, I bet that would work for ole Thunderjug! I know there aren't many threads left in the hole, but I hear that JBs is gooooood stuff. I bet it would fix her right up!"
If there are no real steel threads in good condition, JB Weld will not "fix her right up".

Now, if someone wants to blow the nipple drum out of their gun when they are out in the boondocks, that will just ruin their day.
If their shooting at a shooting range and the drum blows out, the guy/girl on the next bench could be seriously injured, perhaps killed by that flying drum.

Thanks for your comments and keep them coming.