I shoot these things a lot, but I've just been compensating for the shift in POI... some guns I've given up on, like my Kibler, I just can't control it once it's off a rest apparently. It just seems strange to me that the POI will shift so dramatically, or group size in the case of the Kibler, even though I can call my shots. The front sight is always very near where I want it to be when the shot breaks, live fire or not. Maybe I am subconsciously bringing the front sight back on target after the shot has broken. Next time I'm at the range I'll get some live fire video.Well, you're describing a problem that everyone has and is just more pronounced with muzzle loaders. You just need more practice and development of the muscles needed to shoot THOSE rifles offhand. Stop shooting off the bag and just start shooting a LOT offhand.
But a couple of other issues: Lock time. MUCH slower than what you're probably used to on other guns. This means that you MUST maintain sight picture (and "follow through") MUCH longer than with other guns (like your 45/70). The BP guns are balanced differently, lock time is slower -- meaning the time between pulling the trigger and the projectile exiting the barrel is long enough for you to really pull it off target with a movement you're not even noticing. It might help to get someone (preferably someone experienced in BP shooting, but not necessarily) to watch as you shoot. Oddly enough, my wife has the same problem with her AR-15 (but for different reasons) -- she anticipates the shot and pulls low to the right. We're working on this.
It's just a matter of practice. I'm constantly working on it myself. If you know the rifle is sighted in and can produce good groups off the bench, then stop shooting off the bench, practice shooting offhand, and concentrate on the "follow through" and maintaining sight picture longer than you would on cartridge guns.
"It will shift to the right ..." Not exactly. YOU are shifting it to the right. STOP IT!
My stance is the typical Schuetzen shooting stance which is used for 200m off hand in my chosen shooting sport with the typical "figure 8", so if you have a better way of shooting off hand then what is taught by professional off hand shooters and has been for over 100 years now then by all means, and I mean this in the most respectful way, please let me know. Resting in the palm is how I can achieve my natural point of aim. You know, the whole close your eyes, shoulder the rifle, open them, if you're not on target change it.
Could be that, but I've gone back and watched videos of me shooting chickens and my cheek doesn't come off the rifle until the round has impacted steel or dirt... I feel it's the same way with the flinters. I think I need to video some live fire action to really see what's going on.
The figure 8 is what I do for all guns. I've done the coin trick, coin doesn't move.
Hope you can figure it out. I am sure it is frustrating.
It is. I think the fellas that think I may be flinching when there is some thunder in the pan is probably what is going on, it's the only thing that makes sense. The break might be clean, but where it goes wrong is that millisecond between the pan charge igniting and the rifle firing, and it all happens so fast I'm not noticing that I'm doing it. This is my suspicion after what has been said, but I don't know how to prove it, and then ultimately, fix it. Maybe some hypnosis and someone saying "you will not look at the flash" is what I need.
I hate to mention unmentionables, and caplocks, but it's the closest thing I can relate to. I spend a lot of time on load development, on every gun, whether it's muzzleloader, blackpowder cartridge, or smokeless cartridge. The load I shoot out of all of my flinters is the best possible load that could be worked up after multiple granulations, brands, ball, and patch sizes.
The frizzen is falling back on top of the flint. It doesn't do that when there isn't a thick piece of leather wrapped around it.
