Can you see what I'm doing wrong?

[GREENSWLDE]

When the Colonel was Instructing Young Sportsmen to shoot a flint gun in the early 1800's he had his man load the gun with orders to some times not prime the pan,others No shot or just priming or full charge when the target was a gatepost. The Young Sportsman quickly learned about FlintFlinch!! Could be your problem ?? Living off the land people soon learned No Partridge.. No Diner..OLD DOG..

 

[Travis186]

This won't change your groups but why is your frizzen not opening all the way? It's stalling when the flint reaches the bottom of it.

Nothing wrong with the lock. The thick leather I have wrapped around the flint puts it at a weird angle and doesn't flip the frizzen open all the way. It doesn't happen with just a flint in the jaws.

 

[smo]

2 words…..

Comfortable stance

Control breathing

Focus on

Front sight

Dry fire

Follow thru

Muscle memory

Ear Plugs…..

for live firing of course

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Nothing wrong with the lock. The thick leather I have wrapped around the flint puts it at a weird angle and doesn't flip the frizzen open all the way. It doesn't happen with just a flint in the jaws.

Try Thinner leather.I use leather the thickness of old shoe tongue.. About 1/16" or thinner ..O.D..

 

[Grenadier1758]

I don't really see an issue with your shooting posture, @Travis186. The crescent butt plate is tucked into your arm between the bicep and the shoulder. Your rifle is across your chest. You are supporting the fore end just behind the center of gravity. One of the things that I have learned from my shooting is that if the impact (for a right-handed shooter) is low and to the right, I am lowering the barrel as I fire. Such lowering may not even be noticed, but it is happening if the rifle is on target when firing from a bench. The left-hand rest on the torso needs to be more solid. This is a very important step to practice. The drop is likely to be induced by unconsciously pushing the rifle forward to "hasten" the firing of the lock. This is common when using a single trigger that the barrel is pulled down when firing. You may not notice this pull down when live firing. Try the video analysis when firing the rifle. When sighting using the figure 8 technique, try having the trigger release as the sights are rising through the center target.

Now then, let's talk about the frizzen resting on the flint after trigger release. You have observed that it happens when you are using a thick leather wrap on the flint but not when you do not use a leather wrap. You really do need a leather wrap. Try using a thin glove leather wrap. In both cases, the frizzen is bouncing back and striking the flint. The thick leather wrap cushions the frizzen and it can't bounce back while no leather gives it more bounce. Either the flint is striking the frizzen so hard that the feather spring can't hold the frizzen open or the frizzen spring is so stiff that it opens enough for the flint to clear the frizzen and falls back. That should be addressed. What's your flint life?

What do your patches look like after firing? Holes or tears in the patches should be addressed. Muzzle loading rifles benefit from a smooth even crown. Sharp crowns on a muzzle loading rifle will cut patches. When patch integrity is compromised accuracy on target is lost too. The same is true for holes in the patch from sharp edges on the lands. Some bore polishing may be in order.

 

[david w]

Maybe you should consider holding your rifle a different way. I shoot holding my support hand close to the balance point of the rifle. If I hold my support hand close to my body, my rifle is too muzzle heavy, and I wobble around the target.

 

[Travis186]

I don't really see an issue with your shooting posture, @Travis186. The crescent butt plate is tucked into your arm between the bicep and the shoulder. Your rifle is across your chest. You are supporting the fore end just behind the center of gravity. One of the things that I have learned from my shooting is that if the impact (for a right-handed shooter) is low and to the right, I am lowering the barrel as I fire. Such lowering may not even be noticed, but it is happening if the rifle is on target when firing from a bench. The left-hand rest on the torso needs to be more solid. This is a very important step to practice. The drop is likely to be induced by unconsciously pushing the rifle forward to "hasten" the firing of the lock. This is common when using a single trigger that the barrel is pulled down when firing. You may not notice this pull down when live firing. Try the video analysis when firing the rifle. When sighting using the figure 8 technique, try having the trigger release as the sights are rising through the center target.
That's what I'm suspecting as well after it's been mentioned. I'm going to have to get it on video live firing to really see it.
Now then, let's talk about the frizzen resting on the flint after trigger release. You have observed that it happens when you are using a thick leather wrap on the flint but not when you do not use a leather wrap. You really do need a leather wrap. Try using a thin glove leather wrap. In both cases, the frizzen is bouncing back and striking the flint. The thick leather wrap cushions the frizzen and it can't bounce back while no leather gives it more bounce. Either the flint is striking the frizzen so hard that the feather spring can't hold the frizzen open or the frizzen spring is so stiff that it opens enough for the flint to clear the frizzen and falls back. That should be addressed. What's your flint life?
See below, since you're not the only one that has pointed it out. Trust me, the lock is fine. I get on average about 30 shots before a flint needs knapping on this little L&R late english.
What do your patches look like after firing? Holes or tears in the patches should be addressed. Muzzle loading rifles benefit from a smooth even crown. Sharp crowns on a muzzle loading rifle will cut patches. When patch integrity is compromised accuracy on target is lost too. The same is true for holes in the patch from sharp edges on the lands. Some bore polishing may be in order.
Patches look good. I went and hunted a few down just to confirm.

I put my replies to your questions in bold under each paragraph.

I think you guys are misinterpreting what I'm telling you with the lock, there is NOTHING WRONG with the lock. I have the leather wrapped around the FRONT of the flint to keep it from showering my living room with sparks and flint shards, which is why it's doing that. It's not an issue otherwise.

 

[Artificer]

IF you have a backyard or at least a garage where the sparks/jet of flame won't set anything alight, you might try dry firing and putting powder JUST in the pan ONLY. This will teach you to ignore the flash of the pan.

Concentrate on perfect sight alignment BEYOND when the ball would have a chance to go through the target.

Are you concentrating on perfect sight alignment as the muzzle moves in what we call your natural "wobble area" or natural movement while pressing the trigger and the shot goes off when it will OR are jerking the trigger when everything is aligned perfectly? If doing the latter, then stop it and concentrate on perfect sight alignment and the shot will be a surprise when it goes off.

Gus

 

[fillwa]

My tact: The bench tells me about the rifle. Off hand tells me about my form and follow through.

Off hand I will shoot a few dead on POA and all of a sudden to the right or low right. I am a right hand shooter.

I do dry fire my flintlock using a close pin instead of leather wrapped flint. I will also use a flint and primed pan. I do this to get used to all the action going on in front Of and close to my face. I have often wondered how much the rifle moves from the momentum / inertia of the lock…

 

[Artificer]

IF you have a backyard or at least a garage where the sparks/jet of flame won't set anything alight, you might try dry firing and putting powder JUST in the pan ONLY. This will teach you to ignore the flash of the pan.

Concentrate on perfect sight alignment BEYOND when the ball would have a chance to go through the target.

Are you concentrating on perfect sight alignment as the muzzle moves in what we call your natural "wobble area" or natural movement while pressing the trigger and the shot goes off when it will OR are jerking the trigger when everything is aligned perfectly? If doing the latter, then stop it and concentrate on perfect sight alignment and the shot will be a surprise when it goes off.

Gus

Oh, you spoke to establishing your natural point of aim, which is great, but do you do that for EVERY Offhand shot? Sometimes you move one foot or both feet a tiny bit when reloading and so you must check this for every offhand shot. Mount your rifle with your eyes closed and when you open them, the sights should be perfectly aligned on the target, if not, you have to move one or both feet until you are aligned perfectly on target when you open your eyes.

The above and absolutely concentrating on perfect sight alight while I pressed the trigger so the shot would be a surprise (when I finally began doing all this) caused me from shooting low expert on the rifle and pistol to high expert and in the case of the rifle, I tied the all time High Requalification Record at Quantico. I was the 8th person to tie the record in 1988 and as of a month ago, no one has tied it or beaten it since.

Gus

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Try what Gus says above. Dry fire with powder in the pan and pay attention to your response and sight alignment. This will reveal if you are jerking without realizing it.

 

[deerstalkert]

by dry firing with the flint wrapped and the feather not opening completely you are introducing a new variable into your system. the mechanical dynamics need to be exact along with your stance.

 

[Grenadier1758]

It is. I think the fellas that think I may be flinching when there is some thunder in the pan is probably what is going on, it's the only thing that makes sense. The break might be clean, but where it goes wrong is that millisecond between the pan charge igniting and the rifle firing, and it all happens so fast I'm not noticing that I'm doing it. This is my suspicion after what has been said, but I don't know how to prove it, and then ultimately, fix it. Maybe some hypnosis and someone saying "you will not look at the flash" is what I need.

As many of us observed, time slows when we fire a flintlock. We may not realize it but our body will anticipate the recoil as the trigger releases and the hammer starts to fall and push forward. With that perfect Fred Ross hold, as the shoulder moves forward the supporting hand dips. Then once the smoke cleats everything is back on target.

With respect to the flint wrapping, I will advise using a wooden "flint" in the jaws to prevent the spraying of sparks in the house.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

I made this video hoping to show you guys what I'm doing, and see if anyone can help me out here... I'm at the point of losing sleep over this now. Any, and all help, is greatly appreciated. Help me shoot better!

Your sight picture changes from the bench to offhand. Practice shooting offhand. I tried shooting "over the log" and can't do it because I plant my face on the stock different each time I shoot. Some over the log shooters actually put a tack in the stock so they get a consistent face plant every time. I only shoot offhand. Also you demonstrated that your bench groups go from what looks like 4 inches to 8 inches. Your groups off the bench should touch each other or be within a minute of angle.

 

[Travis186]

With respect to the flint wrapping, I will advise using a wooden "flint" in the jaws to prevent the spraying of sparks in the house.

Hell hath no fury like a wife who gets a shard of flint in her foot from one of those "stinky old guns you like to shoot".

 

[Wingnut1231]

Maybe try dry fire with the pan primed and the muzzle pointed at your camera to see if the muzzle wanders during the flash

 

[Travis186]

Still don't see anything. I'll get video at the range next week of live fire and see what changes. If I still don't see a flinch but shots are still getting thrown then I will change up my stance and try a shotgun stance. I think it's obvious at this point like everyone has said, I'm pulling the front sight off the target at some point, and it's dramatic. I'm not seeing it and to my eye I'm still driving the front sight into the target, but apparently that's not the case. Hopefully if I can get my mistake on video, especially in slow mo, I can see it and correct it.

 

[LME]

Still don't see anything. I'll get video at the range next week of live fire and see what changes. If I still don't see a flinch but shots are still getting thrown then I will change up my stance and try a shotgun stance. I think it's obvious at this point like everyone has said, I'm pulling the front sight off the target at some point, and it's dramatic. I'm not seeing it and to my eye I'm still driving the front sight into the target, but apparently that's not the case. Hopefully if I can get my mistake on video, especially in slow mo, I can see it and correct it.

The problem is you can't see it? Think of it like this, nobody watching you can see it either. I know that sounds crazy but compare your movement to what it would be using a rifle scope. four clicks at a hundred yards constitutes an inch in most scopes but a click is in the hundreds of an inch? That little round tube with all its clicks could put a shot eight, nine or even more inches off. this is one of the reason to check your trigger finger it is one thing a lot of shooters neglect to do. Even how you grip the forestock can pull you off a lot. Let that forestock float in the palm of your hand.

 

[Snooterpup]

If it hits from the bench, offhand stance could definitely be the problem. One hint I learned from a competitive air gunner is the following:
Your natural point of aim may be off. To determine your natural point of aim look at your target. Close your eyes and shoulder you gun. Open your eyes. Your gun is probably not on target left or right at this point. Do not move to correct this yet. If you are right handed, lift the toes of your left leg slightly and pivot with your weight on you left heel to bring the target to alignment either left or right. This small correction is very important.
Forcing your upper body, head, neck or arms to correct the sight alignment is not natural. With a muzzleloader, the lock time is slower than an unmentionable and this lag coupled with a forced unnatural position usually results in pulling the shot either left or right. Follow through is key to hitting the target and using the natural position described above will greatly aid in a cleaner follow through. Practice this often. Just use the above stance. This actually works. Take this few seconds first. Give it a try and best of luck!!!

 

[Snooterpup]

If it hits from the bench, offhand stance could definitely be the problem. One hint I learned from a competitive air gunner is the following:
Your natural point of aim may be off. To determine your natural point of aim look at your target. Close your eyes and shoulder you gun. Open your eyes. Your gun is probably not on target left or right at this point. Do not move to correct this yet. If you are right handed, lift the toes of your left leg slightly and pivot with your weight on you left heel to bring the target to alignment either left or right. This small correction is very important.
Forcing your upper body, head, neck or arms to correct the sight alignment is not natural. With a muzzleloader, the lock time is slower than an unmentionable and this lag coupled with a forced unnatural position usually results in pulling the shot either left or right. Follow through is key to hitting the target and using the natural position described above will greatly aid in a cleaner follow through. Practice this often. Just use the above stance. This actually works. Take this few seconds first. Give it a try and best of luck!!!

A thousand pardons for my post appearing twice. Don’t know how that happened.