Can you use chilled shot for roundball

[Dryball]

Read recently where shot was harder to come by so some mountain preferred to carry shot and use as needed to cast a ball. Question - today's chilled lead shot is coated with graphite and I understand the chilling actually hardens the lead a little. Can modern shot be used to make round ball? or is what I read balogna?

 

[tenngun]

Yes, works better in a smoothie. Pure lead serves best for rifle guns in either a ball or a conical. Smoothies are more forgiving.

 

[Dryball]

Would hope recasting would anneal the lead again. Would want for both rifle and smoothbore. I guess I could just try it and see what happens

 

[ohio ramrod]

Back when shot was cheap I used some to make round ball, it worked better than wheel weights. But at today's prices I would trade it for lead. :idunno:

 

[Dryball]

Thanks....have both lead and shot. Was thinking from a demonstration / educational perspective. Guess hte real issue is whether or not its true and historically correct premise.

 

[Artificer]

Read recently where shot was harder to come by so some mountain preferred to carry shot and use as needed to cast a ball. Question - today's chilled lead shot is coated with graphite and I understand the chilling actually hardens the lead a little. Can modern shot be used to make round ball? or is what I read balogna?

In case I have not said so - Welcome to the Forum.

Not exactly sure what you read in the historic period? Bar lead was traded in huge quantities, but so were already cast balls in different sizes in enormous quantities, though this was by the French from New Orleans (and supplied all over west of the Alleghenies) and mostly in the Pre AWI period.

Maybe there were some times when shot was as cheap as bar lead, though it would not have been generally true. If shot was as cheap, it would have been easier to cast into larger balls just because of the smaller surface area of the shot would melt easier and faster.

We have had some pretty intense discussions that lead is not hardened or annealed by heat, extensive or fast cooling or even work hardening - the latter like brass will do. The only way to harden lead is to add another material to it like tin, antimony, etc. and it becomes a harder alloy of metal.

Modern chilled shot is usually not pure lead, but usually has something in it to make a harder alloy. Some kinds have more tin and or antimony than others.

Neither Tin nor Antimony can easily be removed from the lead alloy by hobbyists. So making balls from modern shot will most likely work better in a smoothbore as others have mentioned.

Gus

 

[Zonie]

Some time ago, several accuracy tests were done to see if a hard lead alloy roundball could shoot as accurately as the traditional pure lead roundball.

What was found was, yes, alloyed lead roundballs could be made to shoot accurately.

Because the alloy lead (like the 'hardened lead' you are asking about) deformed less, thinner cloth patches were needed to load balls made from it.

There was a balancing act in finding the right thickness of the patching material.

It had to be thinner to ease the force needed to load the ball but it also needed to be thicker than the depth of the rifling grooves to seal them.

If you feel like doing some experimenting, go for it.

After all, finding a ball/patch/powder/lube load that shoots accurately is part of the fun of shooting muzzleloaders. :grin:

 

[smoothshooter]

The boys over at Cast Boolits say dropping hot bullets right out of the mold into cold water hardens pure, or nearly pure lead a few Brinnell points. They have also proven that over time, ( months ) that the hardness of lead will vary a little, both hardening and softening.
The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition loading manual covers this in excruciating detail as well.

 

[Artificer]

Yes, when antimony is added to lead to make an alloy, then it will be able to harden a tiny bit by chilling. But pure lead does not harden. There is also some evidence that when arsenic is added to lead, it will harden a bit when chilled.

Gus

 

[nhmoose]

Yes, when antimony is added to lead to make an alloy, then it will be able to harden a tiny bit by chilling. But pure lead does not harden. There is also some evidence that when arsenic is added to lead, it will harden a bit when chilled.

Gus

Kind of where the name chilled shot came from I bet.

Todays chilled shot is soft shot [still harder than pure lead] and the cheaper the brand the softer.

Magnum shot is way harder using tin and antimony in the alloy so when dropped in the coolant [water] it hardens much more. Magnum also costs more money.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Most wheel weights are made of zinc these days, so finding lead ones from the tire shops is going to be getting tougher and tougher as the years roll on.

I still can get lead from the local gun club when I clean out their .22 league's bullet traps every couple of years. Lots of slag, wood, and ash in there to skim though.

 

[bpd303]

I have shot patched hardend balls in my rifles and smoothie's and they work fine.

They are not good for revolvers that need to cut a ring off the ball when loading. Puts too much pressure on the loading lever which might break.

 

[Rockthrower]

A warning when melting shot to make balls--arsenic is commonly used to harden shot--it's cheap and it's toxic.

I would not recommend being around a pot which is giving off fumes from heated arsenic.

 

[cynthialee]

if it is round and reasonably heavy, and it will fit down the bore with a patch...you can shoot it

I have shot marbles, ball bearings, regular round balls made from lead, roundballs made from wheel weights...if it is round and fits...It shoots.

Now you have to be very careful and load it right if you use some of the hair-brained items I have mentioned. There is no recovering from a dry ball or a stuck ball with a screw in ball puller when it comes to marbles and bearings. You dry ball or get stuck you may be in for a long wait as you figure out a fix.

 

[tenngun]

If it goes down and a dry powder charge is behind it it will come out. The problem with hard is multi fold. The patch grips the ball, if it's too hard the patch might strip and not transfer twist to spin. Being lighter you can loose velocity, so you don't get as big a bang for your buck. The trajectory will change and it will shead velocity quicker. It won't deform as much hitting game.
That said I wouldn't want a transonic marble or ball berring thrown at me. And experimentation could get you a good load. I'm sure they ran a lot of ball that wasn't pure. Wild lead often comes pre mixed with contaminits like zinc and arsnic as they are found together a lot. Copper was popular in Mexico and were hunting requires a silver ball

 

[Black Hand]

Read recently where shot was harder to come by so some mountain preferred to carry shot and use as needed to cast a ball. Question - today's chilled lead shot is coated with graphite and I understand the chilling actually hardens the lead a little. Can modern shot be used to make round ball? or is what I read balogna?

For the price you pay for shot, it isn't worth it.

As to Mountain Men - Why carry shot when you could carry cast ball of the proper size? Unless they were carrying a smoothbore/tradegun, shot would be useless. If you found shot/ball, they could be melted and cast into ball as needed. Also, bar lead was available and could be made into ball. Carrying shot as a source of lead for rifles doesn't make sense...

 

[nhmoose]

A warning when melting shot to make balls--arsenic is commonly used to harden shot--it's cheap and it's toxic.

I would not recommend being around a pot which is giving off fumes from heated arsenic.

Bull in alloy no problem

 

[Black Hand]

Bull in alloy no problem

Your response is cryptic at best....

 

[tenngun]

One thought, HBC did sell shot, I don't recall seeing it in list of goods brought to Rendezvous. One could make it in the field....however I could see a rare one in a thousand event where the only lead to be had was precast ball,or shot :idunno:

 

[Artificer]

From 1665 to at least 1780, the best kind of small shot available was Rupert Shot and it was always fluxed with arsenic to keep the lead from forming tails. Rupert shot was made well into the 19th century. I do not know if they fluxed the lead with arsenic for small shot made by dropping the shot from Towers beginning around 1780.

Gus