Can't Remove Breech Plug!

[user 34300]

Do what Kevin wrote.

You can also use fitted maple blocks with rosin on them. You need a very large machinist vice. Better, use a real barrel vice. If you use less, like leather, lead and other stuff in an ordinary vice, gripping only the opposing flats expect the barrel to spin. The leverage and camming action of the two little flats is huge. It will spread the jaws. When that happens you will damage the flats. Using the V-blocks or fitted maple blocks spread the load over a much larger area. If you will be doing any barrel work take the time to make a real barrel vice. See attached. Those are 1/2" NF grade 8 bolts.

 

[rickpa]

1. Make sure the barrel sets out far enough so that you're not clamping the breech threads

2. Make a witness mark if the barrel/ plug doesn't have one.

3. Heat barrel until warm, not too hot.

4. Use a breech wrench or a wrench with jaws that fit the outside of the plug and give the wrench a solid hit with a hammer to break the threads loose.

 

[fishmusic]

An over-tight plug is unnecessary and strains the threads. Some think it’s stronger. It’s not. From the maker, over-tight breech plugs is of my pet peeves.

Rich,

I have now added that to my pet peeve list.

 

[fishmusic]

All,

You have, again, given good advice about the vise (so I don't start a new vice). More tools to add to the list and my wife is getting annoyed. Living on a fixed income is tough. My project is pretty much on hold until I can get the proper tools. My $50.00 vise is good for stuff around the house, my pattern makers vice is excellent for working on a wood stock and odd shaped doodads but the vise y'all say I need is pretty spendy unless I build it myself. I'll look into that (tip o' the hat to Scota for that idea). We'll see if that cost is less than the cost of a barrel vise.

Do what Kevin wrote.

You can also use fitted maple blocks with rosin on them. You need a very large machinist vice. Better, use a real barrel vice. If you use less, like leather, lead and other stuff in an ordinary vice, gripping only the opposing flats expect the barrel to spin. The leverage and camming action of the two little flats is huge. It will spread the jaws. When that happens you will damage the flats. Using the V-blocks or fitted maple blocks spread the load over a much larger area. If you will be doing any barrel work take the time to make a real barrel vice. See attached. Those are 1/2" NF grade 8 bolts.

Scota,

Got it about the grade 8 bolts. What did you use for the top and base? Did you use 1/2-13 bolts or 1/2-20?

 

[user 34300]

Pieces of scrap steel. 1 1/2 x 2" and 5/8 x 2". "NF" means national fine, ...20TPI. Grease the threads before use.

 

[fishmusic]

My question is this.... Why must you remove the breech plug? An obstruction in the bore? If the bore is clear, you are making more work than is needed. Or do you want to put anti seize compound on the threads of the plug? I have used a set of barrel clamps , bought from Brownells. The clamps are rounded on the outside to fit into a benchtop barrel vise.

Ord Sgt,

I have four reasons for removing the breech plug:

1. To ease the layout and inletting of the barrel.
2. To ensure that the breech plug has been installed correctly by the manufacturer.
3. To polish the breech face to reduce fouling there.
4. To measure where to locate the touch hole liner.

I will use anti-seize on the threads to anyway.

 

[colimr]

Here is today's stupid question ..... Are you going in the right direction? Have you tried to rap the barrel with a brass hammer or ball peen ( with a flat piece of steel protecting barrel ) above the breech plug while you try to unthread it? It is easier with 2 people it momentarily swells the threaded area helping to release the 2 parts as you try to unthread .Rapping around the plug 360 degrees might help .Ive done ii to set damaged threads in large nuts and bolts. Just don't go crazy on an unprotected barrel

 

[2 shots]

a real barrel vise, even with round aluminum inserts will hold the barrel just fine[ catches on all the points]. i saw the split one piece bushings in half. have not meet a plug yet i would not remove. vise must be securely mounted... o yeah. dont forget a proper plug wrench. please stay away from pipe wrenches.

 

[ord sgt]

@ord sgt , do you inlet the barrel into stock when building a gun with the breech plug installed? I remove the breech plug.

From Chuck Dixon's book "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle". There is always more than one way to achieve the same results. I bought this book over 40 years ago and I still use it as a reference.

 

[Vaino]

To begin....have never inlet a bbl w/ the breechplug in. My Starrett toolmaker's vise has its jaws padded w/ 3/32" copper inserts which hold the bbl w/o rotating .Copper plates are placed on both sides of the breechplug bolster and a Crescent wrench w/ a section of pipe are hit w/ a mallet and always is loosened. I agree though that the bbl makers end up w/ way too tight a fit.....Fred

 

[SDSmlf]

From Chuck Dixon's book "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle". There is always more than one way to achieve the same results. I bought this book over 40 years ago and I still use it as a reference.

So you use Dixon’s book as a reference but do not inlet the barrel with the breech plug removed?

Yes I do inlet the barrel and breech plug as one piece. I find it easier to do.

From the page you posted from your Dixon book, ‘once reward position of the barrel is complete finish inletting the barrel channel…… now replace the breech plug and make sure those two marks on the bottom of the barrel and plug are perfectly aligned.’ Continuing, ‘you must first inlet the breech plug bolt till the barrel is again fully seated in the channel’. To summarize, Dixon says to inlet the barrel with the plug removed.

 

[deerstalkert]

I for one am a firm believer in "do it the way you can do it best" AKA" do it the way it is easiest for you".
i have only ever inlet the barrel and plug with tang together. may try it separated, but is one way right and the other wrong? . can't see it myself!

 

[FlinterNick]

Buy two pieces of sheet aluminum to shim, one for each size. The barrel with not slit out. You rub some Rosen powder to the barrel, it will also help avoid slipping.

I inlet the plug separate from the barrel, it just works better for me.

 

[FlinterNick]

Can't imagine any reason to remove a breech plug , on a new build. If you must , you must have a good enough heavy bench vice , with sheet metal jaw covers. Also a 12 to 18 inch crescent wrench , or similar. Don't crush the barrel in the bench vise. Most breech plug tangs are a little too long. It's good to estimate the proper length of the tang by where the tang bolt passes through the trigger plate. The tang can be bent to fit the top contour of the wrist , by putting the last 1/2 " of the tang in the bench vise , while the plug is in the barrel. and pull the barrel toward you gently until the tang can be inlet into the wrist contour through trial and error. Also , to mark the actual breech plug face ,simply insert a ramrod longer than the breached bore , mark and transfer to the outside of the barrel. Luck to ya.

I can think of many a reasons why you’d need to remove a breech plug.

1. Drilling the vent hole.
2. Adding a liner.
3. Measuring the inside threads to verify the plug is properly fitted.
4. Potentially having to notch the face of the breech plug.
5. Inletting to the stock.
6. Anti Seizing the breech plug and breech threads.
7. Roving a stuck ball or rod.
8. Deep cleaning the breech area.

For a new build, removing the breech plug is the best way to get tight inletting for the barrel, lugs and tang.

 

[waksupi]

From Chuck Dixon's book "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle". There is always more than one way to achieve the same results. I bought this book over 40 years ago and I still use it as a reference.

You didn't read that carefully. The barrel is inlet, THEN the breech plug is applied and inlet.

I see someone else pointed out the same thing.

 

[user 34300]

Here is a thought on witness marks. I don't use them. I do feel the top flat and tang with my finger nail. IF it is off by the tiniest amount you can feel the step between the barrel and tang on one side vs the other. That is what matters anyway. Does the tang line up with the top flat as draw field an polished? I can not determine that reliably from a witness mark.

And, for sure once you get the tang off, refit it. There is no reason to have it so tight as to requires a barrel vice, fitted blocks and a special wrench. I fit them so that I can install them in an ordinary vice using a cresent wrench.

 

[deerstalkert]

You didn't read that carefully. The barrel is inlet, THEN the breech plug is applied and inlet.

I see someone else pointed out the same thing.

From Chuck Dixon's book "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle". There is always more than one way to achieve the same results.

 

[bud in pa]

Go to one of the big box stores buy yourself a hard wood plank. Carve out flats to match your barrel. Rosin them up put on your barrel, clamp real tight in your vice, if necessary use a cheater bar on your wrench.

 

[waksupi]

From Chuck Dixon's book "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle". There is always more than one way to achieve the same results.

Yep, the right and easy way, and the hard way.

 

[OhioHawkeye]

I am building an Early Lancaster flintlock with a 42" swamped barrel. For the life of me I can't remove the breech plug. Every attempt causes the barrel to slip out of the vise. I have used leather to cushion the barrel from the vice jaws and then wood but the barrel still slips. I have a pattern makers vice and I tried it in that because the jaws will align with the flats on the barrel. (makes me want to take up a new vice ). The barrel is a Colerain .45 caliber with a B profile. Any hints out there? I' sure I am not the only one who has had this issue.

Why do you need to? But then, I'm no gun builder. The couple I've assembled came with new barrels.