Cap & Ball Revolver vs. Modern Handgun Qualification Course

[Smokey Plainsman]

The soldiers preferred the Remy as it could be quickly reloaded with spare cylinders, unlike the Colt’s.

 

[hrfunk]

The soldiers preferred the Remy as it could be quickly reloaded with spare cylinders, unlike the Colt’s.

So I've read. I've got to get a Colt repro one of these days so I can compare them.

HRF

 

[hrfunk]

I would think at the bare minimum the state would require a level two retention type holster. R.C.

Like I said, there is no state requirement (for which I'm glad. You can see what they came up with for a qualification course!). Individual departments can require whatever holster/retention level they wish. Virtually every officer in the state carries a holster with some sort of retention device(s) installed.

HRF

 

[Enfieldguy]

I have a lot of trigger time on both with the Colt having the edge. I'm faster on the Colt then the Remmy on the cylinder swap. Of course all my Colt-types have correctly fitted arbors and wedges.

 

[Grumpa]

Nicely done. :thumbsup:

Those old guns got the job done back when they were the latest technology, and they can still get it done today.


And the second (3rd, 4th...) gun for a quick "reload", that was a common tactic in the War Between the States. I've seen photos of Missouri partisans with 6 and 8 revolvers. I don't think there was much cylinder swapping in a cavalry melee.

I enjoyed the video.

Richard/Grumpa

 

[hrfunk]

Nicely done. :thumbsup:

Those old guns got the job done back when they were the latest technology, and they can still get it done today.


And the second (3rd, 4th...) gun for a quick "reload", that was a common tactic in the War Between the States. I've seen photos of Missouri partisans with 6 and 8 revolvers. I don't think there was much cylinder swapping in a cavalry melee.

I enjoyed the video.

Richard/Grumpa

Thanks Richard! I'm glad you liked it!

HRF

 

[BullRunBear]

Really nice video. Thanks for letting us know about it. I'm not surprised that the C&B revolver did the job. Their accuracy is so much better than most people think.

And I like the way you solved the tactical reload portion. It is historically correct and gives us another reason to get another gun. :grin:

Jeff

 

[hrfunk]

Really nice video. Thanks for letting us know about it. I'm not surprised that the C&B revolver did the job. Their accuracy is so much better than most people think.

And I like the way you solved the tactical reload portion. It is historically correct and gives us another reason to get another gun. :grin:

Jeff

Ahh, yes. That Sheriff's Model. I really like what I'm seeing with that one. I can't wait to spend some more time with it!

HRF

 

[R.C.BINGAMAN]

I find it strange that the state has no requirements for this issue. As a firearms instructor for a major state agency in Maryland this is a often discussed issue as to weapon retention. It is nice that the officers take it upon themselves to insure retention. But this would make me question the availability to your partners weapon if a situation should arise, and their side arm is needed. Not being familiar with the release features. As to the course of fire it was nice to see some rudimentary tactical movement incorporated. The yardage is basic and I would bet on based on F.B.I. data that most involved incidents are 7 yds. or under. Not ruffing your feathers there was some issues I found interesting. STAY SAFE.- R.C.

 

[hrfunk]

I find it strange that the state has no requirements for this issue. As a firearms instructor for a major state agency in Maryland this is a often discussed issue as to weapon retention. It is nice that the officers take it upon themselves to insure retention. But this would make me question the availability to your partners weapon if a situation should arise, and their side arm is needed. Not being familiar with the release features. As to the course of fire it was nice to see some rudimentary tactical movement incorporated. The yardage is basic and I would bet on based on F.B.I. data that most involved incidents are 7 yds. or under. Not ruffing your feathers there was some issues I found interesting. STAY SAFE.- R.C.

Interestingly, the former course had a good deal of tactical application. There were stages that required officers to shoot while moving. There was a low-light stage. There were stages that required shooting from cover, and there was a long-range stage. The entire course required 60 rounds to complete. There were two groups who became very vocally opposed to that course. They were police academy commanders who were unhappy about having to fail cadets who could not learn to shoot well enough to pass the qualification course; and, administrators of large departments who did not like having to shell out the money for a 60 round course times however many hundred/thousand officers they employed for annual qualification. The peace officer training commission subsequently capitulated to these two groups and we ended up with what I like to call the "Helen Keller Commemorative Qualification Course". The patrol rifle and handgun courses are bad enough, but you should see the shotgun course for a real eye-opener. I think it was devised by someone who hates shooting a shotgun! In any case, I think our present firearms qualification standard is an embarrassment. Part of the reason I make these videos is to demonstrate just how easy they are to pass (even with antique/obsolete firearms). Sorry for the rant, I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning!

HRF

 

[Artificer]

BTW, would your holster have been considered "approved" by Ohio LEO qualification standards? Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember seeing a clear image of your holster.

Gus

There are no "state-wide" guidelines for holsters. That is up to the individual departments.

HRF

I asked that question for a few reasons. I thought you were using some kind of more modern style holster and not a period flap holster, because you were not twisting your arm to get the revolver out of the holster.

I used a reproduction swivel/flap U.S. Cavalry holster when I went through the NRA Police Firearms Instructors Course. The only reason I used that holster was because though it was not the best holster I owned, it was the best holster they would allow me to use on Guard Duty as the Officer of the Day. My intent was I wanted to go through the course with my "Duty" firearm and gear. Well, that was almost a big mistake as that flap holster really slowed me down for quickly drawing the pistol.

Gus

 

[BillinOregon]

Gus, lots of conventional holsters without flaps for percussion revolvers in Rattenbury's "Packing Iron." My copy has seen so much use it is coming apart.

 

[hrfunk]

BTW, would your holster have been considered "approved" by Ohio LEO qualification standards? Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember seeing a clear image of your holster.

Gus

There are no "state-wide" guidelines for holsters. That is up to the individual departments.

HRF

I asked that question for a few reasons. I thought you were using some kind of more modern style holster and not a period flap holster, because you were not twisting your arm to get the revolver out of the holster.

I used a reproduction swivel/flap U.S. Cavalry holster when I went through the NRA Police Firearms Instructors Course. The only reason I used that holster was because though it was not the best holster I owned, it was the best holster they would allow me to use on Guard Duty as the Officer of the Day. My intent was I wanted to go through the course with my "Duty" firearm and gear. Well, that was almost a big mistake as that flap holster really slowed me down for quickly drawing the pistol.

Gus

Just to clarify, the holster I used for the 8" NMA (which was all but three shots), was a reproduction of a mid-19th century "slim-jim" style. The 5.5" Sheriff's model was drawn from a modern, generic, open-top holster. That was really the only holster I had that would fit the revolver and allow me to cross-draw from it.

HRF

 

[Artificer]

Hi Bill,

Good point and you are correct a Slim Jim holster without a flap is period correct. I assumed he was using a more modern holster for the full length Remington, because of the modern cross draw holster he used for the short barreled revolver.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

I was really curious about the holster you used. Thanks for the clarification.

Gus

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I enjoyed your video. The bit about the reload ? Cheat to win... :thumbsup:

I bet we could trade stories about bean counting administrative brass, and others. That would take a lot of coffee... :hatsoff:

 

[R.C.BINGAMAN]

I can appreciate your frustrations all too often the guy behind the desk is making the decisions that may affect the officer on the street. This seems to be a on going situation when ever there is money involved, it has never made sense to me to cut corners no matter what when there is a possibility someone could pay dearly.R.C.

 

[hrfunk]

I enjoyed your video. The bit about the reload ? Cheat to win... :thumbsup:

I bet we could trade stories about bean counting administrative brass, and others. That would take a lot of coffee... :hatsoff:

or bourbon!

HRF

 

[Gotspark]

I just bought a revolver(1860 army) and was looking for a good holster for it. Where might one locate a well made slim Jim holster ?Or is there a good place to have a look a several different styles of holsters. Truthfully at this point im not sure what i want or what is available. Really enjoyed the vid, nicely done... Jack

 

[azmntman]

I can appreciate your frustrations all too often the guy behind the desk is making the decisions that may affect the officer on the street. This seems to be a on going situation when ever there is money involved, it has never made sense to me to cut corners no matter what when there is a possibility someone could pay dearly.R.C.

I'm about the right wingest conservative cheapskate around.....that said I would GLADLY pay more tax dollars to put 2 cops in every car. It's 2018 folks and things may never go back to Wally n Beaver times :shake: