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I agree I think the demand would be there.
Caps Made In Idaho
- Thread starter springfield art
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In the world of shooters, there are those who don't reload. They depend on loaded ammunition, and there is more demand for that that any other use. Think military!
Then there are the handloaders. We use a significant amount of primers, yet are a drop in the bucket of use.
Then there are the muzzleloaders. We are at the bottom of the pile, and are hardly a blip on the screen of the suppliers. You are lucky they take time and material to make caps at all.
Scarcity of caps have driven many to flintlocks, and after trying them, wonder why they waited so long?
I'm too cheap to even think of having a gun I have to snap caps before shooting it. How much are they, a dime each now? I see misfires on the range from cap shooters who are as cheap as me, not clearing the barrel properly before attempting to fire.
Then there are the handloaders. We use a significant amount of primers, yet are a drop in the bucket of use.
Then there are the muzzleloaders. We are at the bottom of the pile, and are hardly a blip on the screen of the suppliers. You are lucky they take time and material to make caps at all.
Scarcity of caps have driven many to flintlocks, and after trying them, wonder why they waited so long?
I'm too cheap to even think of having a gun I have to snap caps before shooting it. How much are they, a dime each now? I see misfires on the range from cap shooters who are as cheap as me, not clearing the barrel properly before attempting to fire.
Blackpowder77
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Just fyi, vista owned cci remington and winchester, they have recently sold the ammunition manufacturing to a czech company, and Goex is mostly owned by the us government, do the math. Start supporting RWS and Schuetzen powder energetics, if not for them we woukdnt have powder or caps in the USA !
waksupi hit the nail on the head. Just think about how popular modern firearms are, how many are owned in the US and how often they are taken out and fired. Then figure in that each time somebody goes out and shoots their modern firearms they fire at least 100 shots and that only takes a couple of minutes. That equals using a tin of caps for a muzzleloader in just a couple of minutes. There are members here that don't use a tin of caps in a year (and some they last even longer). When you think about it, why would a manufacturer take the time to stop using their machinery making one product that they can sell every drop that they make, and set the same machinery up to make something different that, while desired / sought after by a small percentage of users. The down time for changing the tooling costs them money. Lets face it, we are insignificant in the shooting world any more. The reports are that one million firearms are purchased here in the US every month. At 100 rounds to try it out, that would be 100 million rounds of ammo (think primers) being consumed per month. And many people shoot more than that. Just got to put it into perspective. We need someone to start making caps and only caps. Makes me wonder if my cousin, who has my grandfathers old business of making name plates, could transform some of the machinery to making caps? But alas, he is 70 and the business is here in NY, the state were most firearms companies are fleeing.
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Vista has nothing to do with Winchester; Winchester is owned by Olin.
user 34300
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Ammuntion subscriptions?? It does not sound like caps are a big enough market share.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aarons...ll-amid-pandemic-sales-surge/?sh=33e96ad22249
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aarons...ll-amid-pandemic-sales-surge/?sh=33e96ad22249
That deal hasn't closed yet.
I am speaking from purely second hand information here, but a friend in the firearms business used to work at the Idaho production facility in question. His comment to me when I inquired about how hard it was to find rifle, pistol and shotgun primers was that "people do not have any idea just how difficult, dangerous and nasty" (his words) the production process is for primers and caps
Not to be rude and I mean no disrespect here Waksupi to you nor anyone else, but If someone is too cheap to snap a cap then they definitely need a different type of rifle or need to make their own caps.
I cannot imagine not snapping a couple of caps after a good cleaning. Then again I do not experience misfires nor do I need to fiddle around with flints.
My system works very well and the last few tins I purchased last fall cost 5.69 per 100.
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Fellas, unfortunately things change and we don't like it. We have to evolve in our own way. Start making your own caps. Its not that hard and its a bit rewarding. Its a good way to "fight" back. We all know its bull poop and there is an agenda none of us like or completely understand
There are those out there that won't do it. Some will snap one cap and consider it good, without actually checking they have cleared the bore. I would always point the muzzle at a piece of grass or some snow to visually know I was ready to shoot. Those who don't do this, are the ones we see with the most misfires, much more than the flintlocks.
I haven't shot a cap lock in years, so I don't worry about it now.
The chem kits you got contain potassium chlorate, so they are corrosive. Look for the PDF of "Homemade Primer Course". It gives several primer recipes including some that are non-corrosive and use chemicals that can still be found. Find sources and stock up.
Primer comp for commercial percussion caps is the same as for high power, so cap production competes with high power primers. Caps are low production, so machines have to be set up specifically for a short production run, then returned to high power service. Low production = higher per unit prices.
Getting older now, but I still like to be a bit independent. So I have stopped using caps in my rifles and use primers and flinters. Cheap, available and effective. I started making caps for my revolvers and that has worked out OK. What I like is that I can make BP as well, so my arms will work till I am gone. If the SHTF I got other stuff to cover that.
CaptainVane
Colt ‘51 & Remington ‘58 .36; Colt ‘48 .31
I’ve never ever snapped a cap on an unloaded chamber. I make sure my chambers are bone dry from the storage oil and the nipple is fully clear of any storage or cleaning product obstruction. During season April to December I dont even bother using storage oil after cleaning cause I’m going to the range in a couple days again.
Sounds about right. And they wonder why they get misfires.
You go right ahead. Here in this humid climate I apply a good coating of Ballistal after cleaning. Prior to loading I run lacquer thinner down through the flash channel then blow it out with compressed air. Never have a misfire and no rust.
Works for me.
user 34300
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I watched a video last night done by a guy who asked the manufacturers about it at Shot Show. The reps refused to be filmed or recorded, ...weird. They told him that the production priority is military, civilian ammo, then reloading primers. No mention of caps at all.
One caution about making caps with the chemical formulas. Dry priming mixtures are extremely powerful and prone to unexpected detonation. That is why the factories use a wet mixture and are obsessive about cleaning up the area often and thoroughly. I am a DIY person. I have an extensive, professional, chemistry background related to firearms. I have no plans to mess with priming compounds.
I do have a Tap-O-Cap. It works fine with cut out toy roll caps. Wear safety glasses.
All homemade caps are corrosive. Who cares? Black powder is corrosive too.
One caution about making caps with the chemical formulas. Dry priming mixtures are extremely powerful and prone to unexpected detonation. That is why the factories use a wet mixture and are obsessive about cleaning up the area often and thoroughly. I am a DIY person. I have an extensive, professional, chemistry background related to firearms. I have no plans to mess with priming compounds.
I do have a Tap-O-Cap. It works fine with cut out toy roll caps. Wear safety glasses.
All homemade caps are corrosive. Who cares? Black powder is corrosive too.
Potassium chlorate is especially nasty. Put a bit the size of a match head on an anvil and strike it with a hammer. You will be lucky if the hammer doesn't fly out of your hand and kill a cat over at the neighbors.
Caps? Bigger picture concerns me. Understand two things. The millions of firearms in our country will be useful for generations to come. If manufacturing & importation were outlawed today, guns will still be here.
But ..the supply of ammunition in the supply line (waiting to be sold to us, the citizen/consumer) can be measured in months. If/when the evil-doers go after our supply of ammo, firearms will eventually be ornamental, not useful. The effect would be immediate and strangling. This IS the "happy time". Ask folks who live in states where ammo purchases require "permission" how they like it.
Caps' high prices? Yes, they are. Personally, I will continue to buy some because without demand, manufacturers will cease production. Demand equals profit. Profit drives production.
But ..the supply of ammunition in the supply line (waiting to be sold to us, the citizen/consumer) can be measured in months. If/when the evil-doers go after our supply of ammo, firearms will eventually be ornamental, not useful. The effect would be immediate and strangling. This IS the "happy time". Ask folks who live in states where ammo purchases require "permission" how they like it.
Caps' high prices? Yes, they are. Personally, I will continue to buy some because without demand, manufacturers will cease production. Demand equals profit. Profit drives production.
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