Carbines in America

[Many Klatch]

Just thought I would toss this can of powder into the fire regarding carbines in America. Apparently they were here in some volume during the F&I. I lifted the following off of another site, so I can't claim the research.


Amherst orders Ordnance Comptroller Furnis to take in from the Royal Regt "what French Arms the Light Infantry have" on 5 May 1759 pro 34/70 page 44-45 so THAT unit's LI co had French arms until they were rearmed in 1759. In 1759, 4,000 carbines are shipped here from Tower stores. On 5 May 1759 (pro 34/70 page 44-45) Amherst orders Furnis to issue 708 "carbines without Bayonets" to the LI Companies of the Royal, Forbes, Inniskilling, Royal Highland, Abercrobys, Murrays, Pridaux, and 4th Battn Royal Americans. The next day (May 6, 1759 pro 34/70 page 47) orders go out for 520 "Carbine Arms without Bayonets" for Gage's (80th or the Regt of Light Armed Foot). Although Carbine ball is mentioned, there is and not much in the way of documentation on cartouch boxes going out- on May 22 1759 Amhurst tells Furnis (Ordnance Comptroller) "You will deliver to Mr. Dyce forty one Firelocks of those which have been given in from Brigr. General Gages Light Infantry and forty one Cartouch Boxes that hold nine rounds each with nine rounds of powder and Ball for forty one men." p57 Forward to a return dated 3 April 1762 compiled by Francis Stephens, the Ordnance Storekeeper and Paymaster in New York (W.O. 34/70 page 32) and you get documentation for carbines, carbine bayos and cartouch boxes for "Carbine of 18 Holes 983 ” 242"



Many Klatch

 

[rice1817]

I believe that the term "carbine" in the period in question referred also to the bore size. Carbine bore was about 65 caliber vs the 75 caliber of the Standard Long Land Pattern Infantry musket. The light infantry carbines were often of 42 inch barrel length vs the 46 inch of the standard musket. Handier and lighter, but not quite up to today's perception of what a carbine is.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

That is my thought too. It can get confusing, though.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Yep, smaller caliber with barrels ranging from 37 to 42 inches in length and proportionately smaller locks, stocks and furniture. For use by light troops, cavalry or artillery. But we've been over this before, right?

 

[Many Klatch]

Yeah we have been over it before, but one of the people in the know said that Carbines were never shipped over here. I wonder what else we don't know?

Many Klatch

 

[Claude Mathis]

Yeah we have been over it before, but one of the people in the know said that Carbines were never shipped over here. I wonder what else we don't know?

Well, there's a lot we don't know... but we don't know what it is.

It's kind of like asking someone to make a list of the people they don't know. Where do you start? :wink:

 

[chuckpa]

Many
Thanks for sharing that research with us. We sure need more solid information on this subject.

 

[gizamo]

Yep, smaller caliber with barrels ranging from 37 to 42 inches in length and proportionately smaller locks, stocks and furniture. For use by light troops, cavalry or artillery. But we've been over this before, right?

Right :wink:

Giz

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Yeah we have been over it before, but one of the people in the know said that Carbines were never shipped over here. I wonder what else we don't know?

Many Klatch

:hmm: No, no one ever said that carbines were never shipped here, they most certainly were, anyone who has studied 18th Century military weapons knows that. The problem is a lack of understanding on the part of many as to what a carbine is in mid- to late-18th Century language - it is very different than what the average 21st Century person thinks it is and.... :shocked2: Oh, never mind.

Claude, you are most certainly correct.

 

[brubincam]

-----how about a list of people you don't "want" to know-----

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

How about how many musketoons were shipped here during the period beginning 1680 and ending 1780? I've aways wondered about that.

 

[Many Klatch]

Yeah, me too. I imagine there is even less information on those.

Many Klatch