Caribou at over 800 yards ???

I'm confused over the question of ethics when it comes to long range hunting.

I have truble actualy try'n to associate "long range shots" with "hunting".

"Hunting" to me is git'n within the critter's "awareness zone". Are "long range shots" considered "fair chase"?? (as far as I'm concerned, they'er not!!)

YMHS
rollingb

 

[rabjr]

I'm curious, at what yardage does a shot become unethical?

I am a paraplegic and have hunted from a wheelchair for 25 years now. I can't always get within an animals "awareness zone". I do take pride in the fact I do pretty dam good at scouting an area and finding the right spot to sit, also in my marksmanship. Most of the deer I have harvested have been within 75 yards but there has been a few taken that were over 100 yards, one at 225. I also harvested a Antolope in Wyoming measured at 497 yards. Now this is not something I brag about or condone, most people are not capable of shooting that far. I went fully prepared and knowing what to expect. I worked up a load and shot over 300 rounds and zero'd my rifle for 300 yards before that trip.

I'd much rather get up close and personal but sometimes it don't happen that way.

 

[BLAHMAN]

I'm confused over the question of ethics when it comes to long range hunting.

I have truble actualy try'n to associate "long range shots" with "hunting".

"Hunting" to me is git'n within the critter's "awareness zone". Are "long range shots" considered "fair chase"?? (as far as I'm concerned, they'er not!!)

YMHS
rollingb

Ok. here's ethics...ready....somebody you love has cancer, the person's future is measured in days...do you quietly ask the doctor to administer enough pain medication to put them out of their pain, possibly end their life? That's as ethical a question as ever.

That guy could have been bragging, who knows. I know what you're talking of: get close to the animal. How close is close? Maybe the guy couldn't get as close as you like. Maybe he didn't shoot at 880 + yards.

I was just making the comment that he was only hunting. I really don't care if he took a long range shot or if he knocked the damn thing over by blowin' an arrow out of his ass!

 

I'm curious, at what yardage does a shot become unethical?

As I mentioned before, IMO shots become "unethical" when the shooter is outside the critters "awareness zone".

A critter's "awareness zone" is the distance by which an animal can readily detect a hunter by use'n it's natural sense of "sight", "smell", and "sound".

This "zone" will vary somewhat with terrain, wind, cover, and etc.

If a hunter can "hunt" well enough to git within at least "one" of the critter's "senses", then he/she is within thet critters "awareness zone". How a hunter gits ther, determines the level of "skill" one possess's as a true hunter.

This is MHO, on the matter,.... and, I'm sure other real hunters will agree.

:imo: People who shoot game at extremely long range, do so because the long "distance" itself cancels out any reasonable "chance of detection",.... and to me thet is "unethical" and not considered "fair chase"!! :m2c: :results:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Hota]

I agree with the Blahman and Rollin. And this is coming from a guy who shoots long range (At the range). Reasonableness can only be evaluated by the shooter but I think anyone who hunts gets that feeling (a question in the mind... should I be doing this or can I make this shot) If it even comes across your mind you have to stop and think. If you stopped, it may be unethical. I think if your zeroing in on an animal at 800 yards and your not getting the winds of that question blowing through your ears there may be a problem. Unless you are sniping out a critical target in a military setting and only have one chance to make the shot and can not get any closer than 800 yards, then you have to take it. Distance is the opposite of fieldcraft. A sniper does not try to go farther away from the target. A sniper tries to get a close as possible without getting detected. Much like a hunter. The only difference is, a sniper is afforded the right to take the shot to accomplish the mission. I know hunting feels like a mission at times but is it really?

Like someone said above, we don't really have to hunt. we are not in a survival situation when we go into the woods. Even if you are disabled, it is the fieldcraft that has to be mastered, not the distance.

Just think if you were shooting to your own ability, which may exceed most others, and miss and you by chance hit somebody or something on a deflection. I would not want to have to testify in court about a miss on a shot that only one out of a hundred people could have made. This is a case where you may want to go for the lowest common denominator and save the skill shots for the range.

 

That guy could have been bragging, who knows. I know what you're talking of: get close to the animal. How close is close? Maybe the guy couldn't get as close as you like. Maybe he didn't shoot at 880 + yards.

...... maybe, he also fired several times before he hit the caribou!! :hmm:

YMHS
rollingb

 

Ok I was waiting for some else to say that they have been caribou hunting but it looks as if I may be the only one who has i don't know .
One thing I can tell you. There is NO need to take a shot that distance on a caribou. period!
Caribou travel in herds and if you get hid in the right place they will sooner or later travel past you with out detection and the shot with in 100 yards will present it's self. caribou trails are so easy to see where they travel it is unbelievable. They use the same routes every year year afte year for 100's of years . The trails are easy to find.
Now that being said.. for anyone to take such a shot at that distance is arrogance and on the verge of stupidy period!
I was caribou hunting last year and it is about as sporting as road hunting and shooting a deer from a truck window. Something I will never waste the money to do again.
it's like there they are . you got 2 tags do you want to shoot 2 out of this herd or 1 for now and then 1 out of the next herd. Walking through the ranchers pasture would be more sporting... at least he may have a bull to chace you out.
The shot that distance may have been done to put some challage into it... but I will stick by my first reply...

:bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull:


Woody

 

Woody,.... I have also hunted caribou, jest never occured to me to talk 'bout caribou hunt'n.

Word gits around real fast in a community, when the herds start move'n. The highway for several miles has people drive'n along slowly 'til they reach a "turn around" point to travel back to anuther "turn around" point,.... always watch'n for a herd to git close to the road so they don't have to drag'em far thru the snow covered ni*^er-heads.

Most of the "hunters" were military from Eielson A.F.B. outside Fairbanks, and quite a few local native Athabaskins.

The herds often cross the highway, while hunters on each side of the herd shoot towards each other, I've seen dead caribou be'n gutted in the center of the road.

I've seen natives cut the head off a bull caribou and sell to the highest bidder while leave'n the carcuss back in the trees.

I seen a native git wrote up for "wanton waste" for do'n what I described above, then when the trooper left, the native shot a cow leave'n the calf to fend for itself,... this was dur'n a "bull only" hunt.

I've seen several bulls shot and only the biggest tagged.

I've seen,..... "ah hell" I cain't go on, I git sick jest remember'n some of those hunts around Northway Alaska. :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse:

Most everbuddy treated me like I was plum-crazy to actualy leave the comfort of a warm vehicle and ambush caribou with my muzzleloader ('cept fer one hunter thet shot at me, think'n I was part of a herd,... I reckon) :curse:

rb

 

[shmrck1]

rollingb,
did you shoot back????? that would have convinced
him you were not one of the herd :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
snake-eyes eace: :thumbsup:

 

[shmrck1]

Woodhick,
:agree: with you its :bull: :bull: :bull: :imo:
snake-eyes eace: :RO: eace:

 

[Huntinfool]

I didn't bother to read all the comments from everyone. I just want to tell you about my nextdoor neighbor. He has a rifle that he has 5000 bucks in scope and all it's a .338 Lapua Mag. it weighs 38 pounds.

I've seen him put 3 bullets in one hole at 300 yards. 2 litres bottles are a sure shot at 800 to 1000 yards for him. He uses a wild Swiss artillery range finder as well as a laser range finder.

I've killed a deer with his rifle I shot it at 550 yards it was like a chip shot with his rifle he calls it the "Equalizer".

The same day I killed mine I saw him shoot a deer in the head at 668 yards. He had just rode out 750 yards and set up 4 bowling pins. I had just got my spotting scope setup when he got back. I was going to set up my cam-corder but didn't do it quick enough.

He said I'm going to try a pin. I said OK and got on the scope to watch. He dialed up his Nite Force scope and smacked the pin down on the first shot. Needless to say I was impressed being the first time I'd ever saw the "Equalizer" in action!

Well when the pin fell a deer stepped out into the field at about 650 yds. Rick said how far do ya think she is Chuck I said she looks like shes about 100 yards back this way from the pins. That doe never took her eyes off those bowling pins. She must have heard that 3 inch long 300 gr. bullet smack down that hard maple pin. And she knew that there was 3 more strange looking white things on the grassy knoll.

Rick made the adjustments on the scope as the deer walked across in front of us. She walked down in a dip in the field to a point where we could only see her head and about 3inches of her neck. Rick said I'm going to try her. I watched through the spotting scope. He said I'm going to hold right where the grass and her neck meet. His scope is like 12 to 47 X I think he said he had it on about 35 power.

He did that because he knew the bullet would be arcing in. When rifle cracked I saw her head disappear and a handfull of fur fly off into the right to left breeze. He also had about 6 inches of windage added to the scope.

Now this is hard to believe for the uninformed but Rick makes great shots like that all the time. Like someone above said doable with the right equipment.

Rick goes out west and pops prairie dogs all the time his personal best is 1538 yards. I've shot milk jugs full of water with the Equalizer at 1000 yards and I can tell you it's hard to miss if you are a decent shot.

Believe it or not it's the truth, :redthumb:
Chuck

 

[shmrck1]

Huntinfool,
with that setup its believeable, still under good
conditions though. does'nt anybody ????? the fact that he
did this twice( "hit it both times") at 802 yrds. what was
this "dumb" animal doing between those two shots, posing??
802 yrds at a moving target(i would think) is :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull: and i won't be convinced
otherwise :m2c: :imo: it was still a poor shot to
take IMHO
snake-eyes eace: eace: eace:

 

The question of the ethics of long range hunting is complex. It is relative to the skill and equipment of the hunter. Also, tradition is involved. I was raised in PA where long range ground hog hunting was a highly evolved sport. For some people, making a long range shot IS the sport. It was still hunting. The ethics I had more trouble with was when I moved to Texas and found that people slaughtered deer over feeders from stands--baiting was both unethical and illegal where i was raised. But people were raised that way in Texas and saw nothing unethical about it. It is the opposite of long range shooting. An acquaintance had a cabin on a small acreage in south central Texas and had two feeders set less than 100 yds either side of his porch. He'd feed the deer all year, then opening day calmly walk out on his porch, coffee in hand, sit down in an easy chair and decide which deer to kill off which feeder. He got the deer used to him by going out there year round and target shooting on a range that bisected the feeder lanes. They hardly looked up as he sat down and aimed his high powered, high mag scoped centerfires at them. Ethics? I'll take the 600 yd ground hog shooter any day over that. Now with BP there is a different ethic that involves the limitations of range, power and primitive sights. I much prefer stalking to stand hunting and prefer to let an animal go than shoot beyond a reasonable range based on my abilities and equipment. :m2c:

 

[RussB]

I have been very hesitant posting to this thread, mainly because I realize ethics are, in fact, many different things to people.....

However, I do agree with Mike's post.

I was in total amazement that some folks consider hunting deer with dogs as ethical.
I was so against it, I didn't hunt the first year I was stationed in Alabama years ago. Now, looking back over the years, I understand the fact that if they didn't use dogs there would have been be very few deer killed, and they would probably never have reached the very healthy deer population that state now has.

The last time I hunted in Alabama, the limit on Deer was, "not to exceed one per day".
Theoretically, if one hunted with a bow, a muzzle loader, and a modern firearm, that person could take about 80 / 90 deer a year....and hunting with dogs was still allowed.

That speaks well for a state with "unethical" hunters.

This is just one side of my thoughts on ethics. The other side says, If you feel it is unethical....it certainly is.

Russ

 

[Old Charlie]

RussB it is now two a day one of whitch may be a buck.
Old Charlie

 

Huntinfool,.... How many pack-critters does yore neighbor use, to haul all thet "gear" into the hunt'n fields?? :crackup: :crackup:

Was yore neighbor also prepared to pack thet 38 lb. "monstrosity" of a riflegun 660 yards, in order to "finish off" thet deer (mostly hidden by the "dip in the field") had the shot only wounded the deer?????

I guess my think'n is,... not ALL shots are "guaranteed to be perfect" at any range, even with the best of equipment.

Most deer will "bob" ther head and "stomp" one of ther front feet ever so often, when check'n out a "suspicious object" thet has moved (in this case a "bowl'n pin").

I'm sure both you and yore neighbor, took these things into consideration "before" the shot was taken thet day!!

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Tahquamenon]

I love long range shooting.

While that is excellent shooting, it just does not seem that sporting.

However out west, long range hunting is often all you ever get to do as the deer & elk can see you for really long distances.

My longest deer shot (4pt) was 170 yards (as measured by my fathers long stride paces) at age 16 with my grandfathers 1921 Model 1899 Savage in 300Sav. Lyman Alaskan 2x scope.
Temperature was just above zero degrees, on thanksgiving day in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Shot through the lower portion of the heart. This is the best shot I've ever made. Not becuase the shot was particularily tough, but because it was with my grand fathers rifle. The same one that he carried the year prior and he had left the rifle to me after passing away.

 

[Huntinfool]

Hey RollinB,

My neighbor has yet to miss with "The Equalizer"! He took the shot at the deer's head knowing he could hit her and hoping she didn't duck her head.

But knowing if she did move her head in the 6/10th of a second it took the bullet to arrive their it would most likely be a clean miss. If she'd have stayed where he could've seen her whole body he'd have popped her dead center in the kill zone I'm sure. That's furthers he's shot at a deer to date but he's ready for one even longer.

It's all very relative fellows it's a different kind of huntin' for sure. Most of Rick's huntin' is done in the usual manner most of us use.

We drove to within 50 yards of the knoll in a 4X4 truck and 4 wheeler on a trailer to haul all the equipment bench spotting scopes chairs the 4 ft long range finder. sand bags and all!

It's fun for sure I wouldn't want to do it all the time but that particular Dec. 26 in a special anterless deer season it worked great. You can sit around and drink coffee while glassing far off fields for deer.

Is this my favorite way to hunt ..NO Would I do it again...Yes! I'd do it again no problem. Heck I've shot hundreds of groundhogs at 300 to 500+ yards with my .270 most of them shot in the head.

Be careful not to knock it till you've tried it. And don't underestimate a man's equipment and skill. I'm sure there's plenty of pilgrims out there that wouldn't believe Bob1961 could've shot such a tight group offhand at 50 yards the way he did in MF comp. with a flintlock! But I believe he did and could do it again!

If I were a bettin' man I'd put money on Rick taking a Caribou at 1000 yards! Plus remember we all need to stick together some think it unethical to go after game with primitive weapons such as flintlocks and bows.

Hunting is hunting fellows we may not like to hunt a certain way but we need to be careful how we criticize others. That is the goal of anti-hunters divide and conquer!

YMH&OS, :redthumb:
Chuck

 

[Huntinfool]

Shooting an animal at 800 yards isn

 

[TexasMLer]

Sure, an 800yd shot at a Caribou is doable!

Heck, if I can drop a Grizzly with a headshot from 1000+ yards with a .22lr, that guy could easily have killed that Caribou from 800.