Cartridge box

[pacanis]

Really nice start.
And you are spot on with the holes.

I just got my BB cartridge box today from an Ebay seller. "For Revolutionary paper cartridges" it said. The holes didn't even measure a full .75". I have no idea what he used to drill the holes.

He's supposed to be making me a new wood block with larger holes.

 

[oreclan]

Thanks, Artificer. It’ll be my first box. I think I can make it work and hope the hair-on flap distracts everyone from the box design mistake. I’ve got primitive snowshoe biathlons coming up so gotta get it made!

The hole pattern is fine. There was no standard pattern, especially for 18th C. militia use. The pattern and number of holes would be determined by the size and placement of the holes and the radius of the wooden block's ends.
That said I have never seen a "hair on" bearskin flap! Sounds like fantasy, but it's not my build.

 

[rich pierce]

Just out of good will, a fella gave me some pieces of hair/on bearskin, almost half a hide. I’m going to use it to honor the gift and have fun. I am a stickler for historical accuracy with my gun builds so it’s a bit out of character for me to be free with accoutrement design. Have at it.

And here’s the final product. It has many oddities.

First is the bearskin flap. Not documented. Second is that the number of holes in the outer row is greater than the under row. Third is the method of attachment of the flap. I’ve nailed a thin strip of wood atop the hide to secure the hide firmly instead of nailing it directly. I’m pretending the box maker had issues before with flaps simply nailed; pulling away. Fourth, I’ve made 2 dome-headed wood screws attached to the back of the block and my linen strap has several buttonholes to engage the buttons. This allows for changing the strap length for stature and winter versus summer clothing, as well as preference for a low or high carry. Lastly, the fastener is a stout twig nub pointing downwards. Simple and strong.

Here are pictures of the dome- headed wood screw construction from carriage bolts and the finished bag.

 

[Notchy Bob]

That looks terrific, Rich!

Good luck, in your upcoming competition!

Notchy Bob

 

[Brokennock]

Very cool. I love those self made wood screws. And the twig closure is interesting thinking.

 

[Blaze]

Well done Sir! I like it, I wouldnt be surprised if a few more are made,
It really does look good.

 

[rich pierce]

It could happen, if somebody wanted one!

 

[rich pierce]

Rich,

I apologize for again going off topic, but since today the cartridge blocks are often drilled by drill presses, there may be a questions on how far back drill presses go and would they have been used in the period?

Drill Presses as we know them were known as Blacksmith's or Post Drills in the period. I think the term "Post" drills came from the fact they were mounted on a post in the shop.

Here's the earliest such drill I know of and the date may be as early as the 17th century:
View attachment 189032

Would be wall-mounted over a workbench. It can swing on an arc as well as telescope to reach many areas of the bench. Wonderfully ornate! Used with a blacksmith-style brace that would have a dimple in the top in place of a head. The screw is capable of applying the tremendous force needed for drilling metal. Phenomenal patina. 36" high. Can be extended approximately 20" to 30" from the wall.

A much simpler version of this COULD have been made and set up to drill the wood blocks in the period. However, because even a simpler one would still have been expensive and not generally needed in most wood or blacksmith shops, I really can't see a tool like this being used in anything smaller than a factory shop in Europe and not in North America until after the AWI and maybe not until the early 19th century.


Gus

Gus,
I’m not sure what sorts of jigs may have been set up for tasks like this. Someone posted that auger bits like those on the left in the picture below were most common for drilling large holes. I don’t know about their use pre-1800; could very well be. Spoon bits like the ones on the right are very efficient and at least for chair work were very commonly used in large sizes.

I think we sometimes underestimate the skills of workers trained from youth in the material arts. I’d not be surprised if the holes in a cartridge box could be drilled quickly by hand and with high accuracy. A sheet brass template for the shape of the box with holes for center punching the spots for the drill holes could save a lot of time.

 

[Brokennock]

Sorry to further our trip down this side road off the topic.
I recently inherited a couple bit braces, I know my grandfather used them, they could have been my great-grandfather's before that.

Are new bits available? If not, where would a good source of usable old bits be?

 

[Notchy Bob]

I'm pretty sure you can get new auger bits to fit those from Woodcraft supply. Maybe try Highland Tools or Traditional Woodworkers Supply. I'm using an obsolete iPad right now and it is a major pain to move from one window to another, and I don't know how to post links with it. I'll try to verify the above when I fire up the desktop computer tomorrow.

The brace on the right in your first photo is probably the older one. I've never seen one quite like it.

I have one like the one on the left. My dad bought it new about one hundred years ago. Hard to believe, but true. I don't know if you have fiddled with it any, but you can make it ratchet by twisting the collar that is perpendicular to the chuck. It should have clicks for three settings... Ratchet clockwise, ratchet counter-clockwise, and direct drive with no ratchet, which is where you want it most of the time. The ratchet function is very handy for boring in a confined space, however, where you can't get a full 360 degree swing. It's a great tool. I still use mine for jobs out on my fence lines. I don't own a battery-operated drill.

I have a couple of flat-bladed screwdriver bits that fit in the brace, also. These are for larger screws, maybe #12 and up. You can really lean into it to apply pressure, but the best thing is you can get so much torque for turning big screws.

A brace like that with a set of auger bits works very well for wood boring. It gets the job done without that electric motor whine, and you never have to apologize for dead batteries. I love mine, and use it frequently.

Notchy Bob

 

[Brokennock]

I'm pretty sure you can get new auger bits to fit those from Woodcraft supply. Maybe try Highland Tools or Traditional Woodworkers Supply. I'm using an obsolete iPad right now and it is a major pain to move from one window to another, and I don't know how to post links with it. I'll try to verify the above when I fire up the desktop computer tomorrow.

The brace on the right in your first photo is probably the older one. I've never seen one quite like it.

I have one like the one on the left. My dad bought it new about one hundred years ago. Hard to believe, but true. I don't know if you have fiddled with it any, but you can make it ratchet by twisting the collar that is perpendicular to the chuck. It should have clicks for three settings... Ratchet clockwise, ratchet counter-clockwise, and direct drive with no ratchet, which is where you want it most of the time. The ratchet function is very handy for boring in a confined space, however, where you can't get a full 360 degree swing. It's a great tool. I still use mine for jobs out on my fence lines. I don't own a battery-operated drill.

I have a couple of flat-bladed screwdriver bits that fit in the brace, also. These are for larger screws, maybe #12 and up. You can really lean into it to apply pressure, but the best thing is you can get so much torque for turning big screws.

A brace like that with a set of auger bits works very well for wood boring. It gets the job done without that electric motor whine, and you never have to apologize for dead batteries. I love mine, and use it frequently.

Notchy Bob

Thank you. Very interesting. I figured out the ratchet thing, but, assumed that it being more complex would be the newer of the two,,, see what happens when I assume, lol.

I still use mine for jobs out on my fence lines.

It gets the job done without that electric motor whine,

Funny, my primary intention in finding some bits for these is to throw one in my scouting and treestand hanging pack to drill pilot holes for things like my bow hanger. The screw in tree steps usually start pretty well (but I'm not getting younger) but those darn bow hangers give me fits and wear me out.

 

[Artificer]

Gus,
I’m not sure what sorts of jigs may have been set up for tasks like this. Someone posted that auger bits like those on the left in the picture below were most common for drilling large holes. I don’t know about their use pre-1800; could very well be. Spoon bits like the ones on the right are very efficient and at least for chair work were very commonly used in large sizes.

I think we sometimes underestimate the skills of workers trained from youth in the material arts. I’d not be surprised if the holes in a cartridge box could be drilled quickly by hand and with high accuracy. A sheet brass template for the shape of the box with holes for center punching the spots for the drill holes could save a lot of time.View attachment 189889

Hi Rich,

The three bits on the left are center bits and they are seen in Diderot's Encyclopedie of the 1750's. These quickly became the bits of choice for boring numerous straight holes close by each other in the factory shops of Europe, though they were also seen in some of our major cities.

A pointed spoon bit/shell auger, like the one shown in your pic on the far right, was probably more common in America for this kind of work from the late 17th century onward and remained in use in less sparsely populated areas well into the 19th century, because they were more easily made by local blacksmiths.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

This post is dedicated in part to forum member Coot.

Oh, the center bit for boring wood MAY have come as an improvement on bone button boring tools that were used throughout the 17th and 18th centuries.

Below is one more crude than normally used in the civilian trade, but these are difficult to find on the web.

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/bone-buttons-manufacturing-tool.htm
Gus

 

[hawkenhunter50]

I've seen several comments of the bearskin not being documented. There is a picture in Battle Weapons of the American Revolution of a French box with a fur on flap. It looks like the fur has fallen off and it doesn't specify the type but there's at least an example of fur on flaps being used. It's on page 27 at the bottom of the page if interested.

 

[rich pierce]

I've seen several comments of the bearskin not being documented. There is a picture in Battle Weapons of the American Revolution of a French box with a fur on flap. It looks like the fur has fallen off and it doesn't specify the type but there's at least an example of fur on flaps being used. It's on page 27 at the bottom of the page if interested.

I’ve seen a couple with hair-on cowhide. That was my inspiration. There are local farms here with Scottish Highland cattle and I think I hope to get a hide. Half for rawhide and a side for tanning , hair on. I better get a big bathtub for that tanning project.