Carving chisels for beginner

[talkingamoeba]

Hello,
Could you recommend some basic chisels that a beginner would need for some basic relief carving on a stock? Palm handled or straight? Thanks.

 

[Davemuzz]

FWIW, I'm building a flinter pistol (the post is listed here) and I bought a set of "Footprint" beech handle chisels for about $70.

I will say that I like 'em a lot for the job that I'm doing. I've dropped two of 'em on the concrete floor (damn if they don't always miss the big rubber mat that's under me!!!!) and they ALWAYS land on the sharp cutting edge!! I sharpen 'em with a Lanskey knife stone(s).

But, I've been whackin away on them with a small brass head hammer and so far, I'm impressed that they have held up great and cut great.

Now, I'm sure there are better and if I were building 5 or 6 guns a year, I'd be lookin to invest in better tools. But for this one pistol...these work just fine.

MHO

Dave

Oh.....here is a link to them: Footprint Chisels

 

[Birddog6]

I like Flexcut from Woodcrafts.

That being said, I don't think a beginner should carve anything. Only think uglier than a poorly built rifle is a carved poorly built rifle...... Learn to build a good clean rifle with good smooth lines & appealing to the eye from end to end. THEN you are ready to learn to try to carve & NOT on the rifle, on practice pieces.

Learn to build first.

Some learn to build pretty good in 2-3 rifles. Others like myself are still learning........ ya just try a little harder on every one & not make the same errors again. Then ya get old like me & forget what the da// errors were ! :haha:

Keith Lisle

 

[Davemuzz]

Then ya get old like me & forget what the da// errors were ! :haha:

Keith Lisle

Keith....I was gonna say sumpin real cute 'n funny.... :rotf: .....but then after I hit the "quote" button....I forgot what I was gonna say. :shocked2:

Dave

 

[Vaino]

I agree w/ Birddog6 asre building a first rifle w/o carving. That said...the basic tools needed {what I started w/} are an outlining knife,veiner, small shallow gouge and a small, bent shank straight chisel and scrapers and rifflers to suit. Being a half----d artist, I spend way too much time on carving which for a beginner could be better spent on "getting" everything else right", above all the architecture.....Fred

 

[talkingamoeba]

I figure I have to start somewhere and I have boards to practice on. I surely would hate to wreck the stock that's coming. There is no bleep button in my shop. :rotf: Maybe I can do some carving on the next gun. Like how I haven't received the parts for this one yet and I'm planning the next? :youcrazy:

 

[talkingamoeba]

What constitutes architecture?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Anything added to the basic stock, lock and barrel. A Patch box is considered "Architecture, as would be the sideplate, since you can modify the shape of the sideplate to any number of designs to represent a particular "school" of guns. Carving, either incise, or "relief"(raised) would be considered " Architecture".

I would suggest you read up on the " Golden Mean Proportion in Baroque and Rococo Firearms Design..." in the "Journal of Historical Armsmaking Technology", June, 1987, Vol. II, available from the NMLRA, so that you can better understand " Architecture" as a design concept, and learn to apply it to firearms. :thumbsup:

Then you will understand Keith Lisle's advice against any beginner trying to carve his first gunstock. It doesn't matter if you have degrees in Art, as most art schools no longer teach the Golden Mean Proportion to students, much less have the students learn how to apply it. Its too " OLD SCHOOL" these days. :rotf: :grin: :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[Vaino]

The shape of the LR from side and top views due mainly to the stock lines brought about because of properly designed lock and sideplate panels which smoothly blend into a well designed wrist which flows into the comb and all the way to the buttplate and it's angle. If all of this is done well, the end result is pleasing to the eye and is easily recognizable. Of course all these contributing factors vary depending on the "style" of LR being made. That's one advantage of starting w/ a precarved stock...the basic shape is determined and unless too much or too little wood is removed, the end result should be satisfactory. All the "rest" which includes carving, inlays and assorted embellishments are gingerbread and won't improve on a poorly designed stock. Good luck...Fred

 

[Birddog6]

What constitutes architecture?

To put it as basic as I can, building the style of rifle as the originals were.

Nutherwords, it is not appealing to put a Tennessee buttplate on a Lancaster, or carve a Tennessee like a Lancaster would have been, or trim a Jaeger like a Lancaster, etc..

The shape, trim, furniture, carving, etc. should go with the Style or school of that type of rifle, & in that era.

In essence, don't build a Fordchevpontiacmobileyugo. Build it correctly, with correct furniture, correct carving with that style & period, etc.

To accomplish this, you need a book or two to see how that style was built, thus understand what you are building.

Without some good reference, you may build something that will shoot, but nobody but you will know what it is. now to some that is OK, but I have always felt if you are going to put that much $ into it, why not build it as is should have been, or at least somewhat along the same lines as a particular style, rather than how it just happens to turn out :hmm:

Keith Lisle

 

[sbhg]

Hello,
Could you recommend some basic chisels that a beginner would need for some basic relief carving on a stock? Palm handled or straight? Thanks.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2003000/3760/Beginners-Carving-Tools.aspx
Not top quality, but not real bad.

 

[Tinker2]

Palm Handled set looked good to me. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=32474/Product/WOOD_CARVING_TOOL_SET
Have not used them my self.



Tinker2

 

[Birddog6]

I bought a set of the years ago. Made scrapers out of the flat one & angled ones. Didn't care for the handles, prefer a palm type handle, but that is personal preference.
Went from those to a ? Prescot ? Trescot ? Mescot ? something ?cot from Woodcrafts.......
Smaller than the Flexcut. They were OK but when I got the Flexcut tools I realized I should have bought them the first go around. I was just trying to save $ and ended up spending twice as much. :redface: The Flexcut is Much better steel, handle more comfortable, Lots of dif shapes avail, etc. At the rate I have to sharpen them, they should last a lifetime.

I would buy this set: Carving set

and 1 very narrow V parting tool that is a sharper angle V than in the set & a tad taller, & also a 1/16" gouge which is half the size as the smallest gouge in the set.

These tools & a few hand made scrapers & cutters will carve just about any rifle, if you have the talent. IMHO.

Keith Lisle

 

[rootsy]

Don't forget the ceramic shaped stones as well as the strop to sharpen them with... A less than razor sharp and properly shaped tool will result in less than stellar results... A good sharp knife is essential also. Especially for trenching and stabbing in outlines if you don't have 2348795 chisels with different radii.

You can read all you want but you never learn unless you put steel to wood. Doesn't mean the wood has to be an in progress stock... We all have to begin somewhere and only you know what you are comfortable doing and just how talented your hands are.

Stare at pages and photos long enough and eventually you'll pick up on why certain designs are pleasing to the eye...

In the beginning live by the KISS method... Keep It Simple Stupid...

 

[paulvallandigham]

Keith: Don't you think that the biggest mistake that new "carvers" make is not learning how to correctly sharpen their chisels, and how to keep them sharp?

Then, how to use the chisels correctly to protect those sharp edges is a master lesson in itself. I cringe every time I see someone using a chisel to PRY UP anything. :shocked2: :nono: :idunno: :thumbsup:

 

[Birddog6]

Keith: Don't you think that the biggest mistake that new "carvers" make is not learning how to correctly sharpen their chisels, and how to keep them sharp?

Then, how to use the chisels correctly to protect those sharp edges is a master lesson in itself. I cringe every time I see someone using a chisel to PRY UP anything. :shocked2: :nono: :idunno: :thumbsup:

The biggest mistake I see is guys wanting to carve before they can properly build a decent & safe rifle. Second mistake would be carving things they cannot properly draw. If it don't look correct, you dang sure cannot carve it & save it. :shake:

But sharpening is very important, it has to shave like a razor to do really clean work. Most don't have any idea of how sharp the tools need to be to do fine work.....

Keith Lisle

 

[J.D.]

I once saw a first rifle that was very nicely carved. The builder said that all the inletting was done and wood prepared for finishing, but he let it set for six months while he practiced the carving FOR THAT RIFLE. Meaning he practiced carving the design used on that rifle for a full six months until he got it pretty well right. Pretty well, but not as good as the good carvers, so Yeah, Birddog is right. Practice, practice, practice, until you know that you can do it right...then practice some more.

God bless

 

[LRB]

As Birddog and JD said. If you cannot draw it to look right, you'll never cut it to look right. Same as engraving.