Carving on Hawken?

[Amikee]

Hello my fellow muzzies

I'm going through piles of informations about hawken style rifles and there seem to be two sides arguing. One side says hawken style rifles had carved stocks and inlays and other side says they didn't have any fancy decoratione at all. What you guys think? Any references, pictures, sources?

 

[tiger955]

I looked over a dozen original Hawken rifles at the Cody museum a couple years ago, most were very plain. There was one, however, that was custom made for some foreign prince or something that was very ornate, with lots of carving, engraving, inlays, etc. I don't recall if it was made by Sam and Jake, or Sam only. I believe it was an early rifle.
There are a few on here much more knowledgable about Hawken rifles than I, I'm sure someone will chime in soon.

 

[Zonie]

Mariano Modena had a rather fancy Hawken with 5 stars and a full pierced patch box on the right side of the stock.

Most of the original Hawkens were rather plain with iron furniture and few if any embellishments.

The modern large factory made "Hawkens" share few things in common with a real Hawken rifle.
They are closer to the guns that were made in California in the 1850-1870 time frame.

Most of those California guns were also plain.

 

[msuspartan]

The main eason they were plain are from a couple schools of thought.

1. The Hawkens/Plains rifles are tools. And did not get embellished for that reason. Jim Bridger's Hawken is a fine example. I would not decorate my rake or shovel. :rotf:

2. They were not embellished too because someone may or would covet the rifle and kill you for it.

3. The embellishment period really disappeared in the late 1700's due to the 'Golden Age' had passed and was not in demand as it was. And there for not 'fashionable'.

I had a chance to see a Winchester lever action that the Gentleman I am 'apprenticed' to was rebuilding. A late 1870's and it looks like nothing you see now. All steel and looks like and functioned like a tool. (it was really cool to hold it too!!) Made me rethink many things concerning rifles.

Just some thoughts for you.

Cheers, DonK

 

[Rifleman1776]

As said, the Hawken was a working tool. However, throughout history guns have been made as presentation pieces for various reasons. It is not impossible the occasional Hawken was dressed up. I recall, years ago, Turner Kirkland of DGW, bought the contents of an armory in England that had been locked up since the Rev. war. It containted a thousand or more Brown Besses. We know that is a plain fighting gun. But there were also a number of fancy Besses with fancy wood stock, engraving, carving, layes, etc. He wanted $1,000.00 each for the fancy ones. A fortune at the time.

 

[LaBonte]

Original Hawkens, by either the brothers Jake and Sam or their family memebers, ran the gamut from plain to very fancy including at least one with silver mounts and inlays in silver and mother of pearl. Several others have engraved parts and checkering on the wrists.
As for carving on a Hawken it all depends on when and by who - the early guns by Jake and Sam's father Christian as well as those by other family members are Hagerstown, Maryland style longrifles with all the typical carvings, inlays, and fancy patchboxes of that school. There are also some of Sam's pieces from the 1820's that are not only flinters, but also included the same styling and decoration.

Unfortunately most folks only see the plainer guns (most of the real plain ones were made in their later years post 1845) made by Jake and Sam since that is mostly what has been published and then relate that to all of their products - like most gunsmiths of the period that could and would generally make what the customer wanted...

As for rifles by other makers not beeing fancy during the 1820-1850 period I respectfully disagree at least in part. In some areas it was the era of multiple inlays and other gee gaws. To see what I mean I suggest taking a look at the Bedfords along with the rifles from other schools made by makers such as Melchoir Fordney, many of them were very fancy - again it was just all in what the customer wanted and could afford........