Casting Conicals

[Stumpkiller]

I'se disgustipated! I am trying to cast .50 cal 320 gr. R.E.A.L. conicals with a Lee aluminum mold, and am getting a 85% reject rate. I've tried varying the time between casts, alternating the temperature (a bottom pour Lee Production Pot that casts lovely round balls on "8" setting all day long). I either get a pucker in one of the middle two engaging rings or the bottom (sprue-cutter forms the flat base of the bullet) doesn't fully form. The mold is filling and I'm leaving a good "hump" above the cavity as I fill it. Bullets are nice and shiny (no frosting). I suspect the mold isn't hot enough. It's a double mold, and the balls cast at the same time are beautiful. I use a candle to blacken the cavity before casting (as I always have done with round balls).

Anyone have any R.E.A.L. tips?

 

You are correct - the mold is just shy of being hot enough but I also suggest cleaning it before the next session with a toothbrush and acetone, then resmoke the surfaces. Aluminum dissipates heat very quickly so you have to move right along with the pace. I watch the sprue and cut as soon as the puddle solidifies, then refill immediately so the blocks don't begin to cool. I wear welding gloves and work the sprue with my hand, which is faster than a mallet for me. It also is less likely to spring the plate or ding the mold.

 

Try turning up the pot. My production pot (early 80s model) throws good rb at 8 but I must go up to between 9 & 9 1/2 for clean casts of .357-.45 swc slugs.

There is no standard. You have to play with the combinations and get the setting that fills out the mold and turns solid quickly enough to maintain speed without frosting or smearing lead across the top of the block. I generally ignore the # on the dial and set it where it works best.

 

[smokeblower]

I also had this problem. I figured out the flow of lead was too slow and it was bouncing off the rings of the mold. I use a ladle, open top lead pot and pour as quick as possible. The .58 REAL is a booger to pour as well. I have a jig I use to drill a hollowpoint producing more rejections. Out of fifty, I am happy to keep fifteen hunting bullets. I am not as picky with the paper punchers.

 

[musketman]

Maybe the spure cutter's hole is too small to allow the flow needed into the mold, you may have to enlarge it a tad to get better results...

 

Stumpkiller, I had the same problem with 500 gr. .458 bullet's for a 45/70. All it turned out to be was a cold mold, when you finish pouring the puddle on the spew plate should take 4 to 5 seconds to solidify (any longer than that they'll be frosted), also a could be just a cold lead pot. (Which is the same thing as a cold mold) :m2c: :results:

 

One of those things I bought and don't know how I got along with out it is a metal thermomitor. Those "settings" are useless and mean nothing. My Lee pot on "8" is really only about 700 degrees, I get better bullets when the lead is 850 on the thermomitor.

Roaddog: Where'd ya get the "dog"? Cute, I want one.

 

With conicals, and/or any longer bullet, weight will be more critical. I've cast hundreds of thousands of bullets for Sharps, Ballards, Rolling Blocks and double rifles and for my money the best thing you can do is quit using the bottom pour feature of you furnace and get a Lyman or RCBS ladle. You simply cannot cast as consistent a bullet using bottom pour as you can with a ladle, especially with the smaller furnaces such as Lee. Too many things change too quickly. Amount of lead or alloy in the pot thus the amount of pressure on the melt, the force with which the lead or alloy exits the spout, the position of the mold under the spout, etc., etc. I use bottom pour for handgun bullets and roundballs but have quit using it entirely for rifle bullets.

Vic

 

[cayugad]

I have poured hundreds of the 320's. What I found is you have to get the lead extra hot. Why, I have no idea. Also I use a ladle. I use a Lyman ladle and a simple Lee Melting Pot. Also when you pour over the pot, hold the mold close to the lead to keep it real hot, and pour more the extra lead into the mold. Even though the lead is running off the top, off the mold back into the melting pot, I found it keeps the lead in the mold hotter and allows it to fill all those little hard to reach areas.

Then when I move to the dump table, the lead is still molton in the mold. If I were to open it and dump it the REAL would deform. I wait until I can see the lead harden in the spur cutter, cut the spur and then drop it into some soft old wool.

I still loose about 15% that I reject and remelt. I want them all to be the same and think it is time to invest in a PACT BB2 scale.

 

Even the bench rest lead slingers are divided between bottom pour and dipping. I think it actually depends more on the individual & pot used, than on anyting else. On the physical side of it, lead temps HAVE to be higher with bottom pour, and the alloy is also involved in this forulae. The rate of filling is critical as well, along with a flurry of other criteria. Many of the top 10 BR cast bullet association shooters pour rather than dip- they say it's an individual thing and no single way is the ONLY way. Some hav eto hold the sprue plate against the spout, others hold it away form the spout, or a distance in between. It may be THAT way for some people, and that's why they have to do it one way or the other. Personally, when my pot is working correctly, bullets weigh less than 300gr., rate of pour is perfect, etc, I cast perfect bullets with the bottom pour, but for BIG bullets, I still prefer to dip. Is dipping the 'only' way? - no- it's merely one of the ways, and for large projectiles, it just happens to be better for me, with the pot I now have. On the other hand, when I had the old 30 lb. Saeko pot, I poured large bullets just as good as I could dip.
: Personally, I won't use a 10 lb. pot as they are too inconsistant in temperature, lead pressure, etc. A 20 lb. pot is minimum.:imo:

 

[Charles/NM]

I drilled the bottom pour hole on my Production pot out to 1/8" - I think that was the size - the bigger hole helped a lot casting .50 Maxiballs.

 

[Spot Shooter]

I'm think'n about goin' with REAL bullets my own self.

Which 54 cal should I go with a 300gr, or the 380 gr?

Spot

 

[musketman]

I'm think'n about goin' with REAL bullets my own self.

Which 54 cal should I go with a 300gr, or the 380 gr?

Spot

Just get both... :winking:

 

[Spot Shooter]

Musket,

Which is bound to work better in a slow twist barrel.
I'd think the short and light one?

Spot

 

[musketman]

Me too, the closer you get to the round ball's weight and length, the better the slower twist will stabilize the projectile...

:imo:

 

Yup, short for the slow twist.