Casting issues

[Allan Gray]

I tried my hand at casting RBs this morning and ran into some problems.

I have a good source of soft lead I got from a roofing contractor, (flashing material). I put an old heavy sauce pan on the side burner of the gas BBQ and fired it up. My first thought was that the grill doesn't get the lead hot enough. It took a while for the lead to melt and that was only after I gave it some help with a MAPP torch.
It is kind of a chilly and damp day

I'm using a new LEE single cavity .60 cal mold. I cleaned it, and "sooted" the cavity with a kerosene lamp. I pre-heated the mold per the instructions and tried a pour.

The lead flowed smoothly, but seemed to get so far, pooled up in the casting sprue thingy, hardened and prevented more lead from getting in.
I was left with "half balls". I was able to get one full one, but gave up, as it started to rain.

What am I doing wrong? My first guess is that I'm not getting the mold hot enough?

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Mr. Gray,

It sure seems like your lead is not hot enuf. The mold will heat up soon enuf if you keep casting. Just dump out the ball and go at it again. The aluminum mold will heat up faster than a steel one but will cool off fast too. GW

 

[mazo kid]

Yep, your lead is definitely not hot enough. Have you got a camping stove? Sometimes those will get the lead hot enough. I have electric pots and rest the mold on the edge of the pot while it is heating up; then the mold is nearly ready to cast usable balls right away, or after only a few casts.

 

[Stony]

Chances are that your pan is too big. The fact it's a pan is one clue, should be a pot. Go get one at your local resale shop for a couple of bucks. Try to find one about 4 inches across and 4 inches deep. Get it good and hot. Wait for a day with sunshine as rain falling into a pot of molten lead is very, VERY dangerous. :shocked2:

You can pour molten lead into water but NOT water into molten lead.

I've had better luck with the lead as hot as possible in that there are less voids or wrinkled balls while pouring. Yes I have wait perhaps an extra 15 or 30 seconds for the lead to cool enough to drop out of the mold but so what, it's an extra 15, 30 seconds to think about the dead center shot it's going to make. :rotf:

 

[Allan Gray]

Thank you gentlemen,

You've all told me what I thought was wrong...lead not hot enough. I do have a camp stove and I didn't think of it at the time. My wife was frowning at me for using the gas grill, (it's her bbq...I have a wood burning pit) The sauce pan I used was a small one, about 4x4, with heavy aluminum sides. I took some pliers and fashioned a dimple on one side to help with pouring. The fact that the one ball that came out full sized was wrinkled is another indication that the heat wasn't enough.
I have read about the dangers of water in molten lead :shocked2: One of the reasons I called it quits when it started to sprinkle.

Thanks again for the input :bow: I'll give it another try when I come up with more suitable equipment.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Mr. Gray: You want a pot made of steel, not aluminum. Aluminum conducts heat away from your melt too fast. That is one of the problems.

You also will have to consider the size of the ball you are casting, and the diameter of the hole in the cut-off plate. Often, to get enough lead into those molds fast enough, the hole in the cut off plate has to be opened up a bit. This is particularly true if you are using a separate dipper to take the lead out of your pot, and then pour it into the mold, rather than using a bottom pour pot to pour the molten lead directly into the mold. The Lee molds are fine molds, but they are made of an aluminum alloy, and do not retain heat as well as do the steel molds from lyman. Or the brass molds, for that matter. It would be nice to be able to sit around a campfire, molding balls for the next day, but those molds are brass, the caliber is usually much smaller than .600" and unless you can make some sticks to work as handles, your biggest problem will be a combination of not getting the mold hot enough, and burning your fingers when you do!

Please don't ask how I know this! :shocked2: Romantic History does seem to diverge from true History.

 

[Allan Gray]

Thanks Paul,
The Aluminum pot was also a suspect to me, but it was the only one I could get my hands on after I asked the wife..."do we have any old pots I could use?" Funny, because I'm the one that does most of the cooking. It's clear that I created a recipe for molten lead that is just plain not hot enough. Enlarging the casting hole a bit is a good idea. I also noticed that the hole was a bit jagged around the edges too...I'll get it sooner or later, many thanks

 

[jdstrang]

...I'll get it sooner or later, many thanks

Two words: GARAGE SALES!! Endless source of ancillary casting supplies, such as pots, hotplates, big iron stirring spoons, etc. :wink:

 

[Many Klatch]

I cast ball for years on a Coleman stove. That will get the lead hot enough. You have to give lead some time to heat up after it melts so that it will work in the mold. Be careful with aluminum pots. Molten lead reacts chemically with aluminum and can cause the aluminum to fail. It takes a while (years?) but who wants a lap full of hot lead. Use a cast iron lead pot.

Many Klatch

 

[MSW]

to add my two cents to the din of consensus, i think Many Klatch is right

 

[FPDoc]

If you're a hand at welding, for a long time I cast from a pot I made by welding a piece of heavy wall pipe onto a flat square plate (didn't like tippy little pots full of hot lead) and put a heavy wire bail-handle on it. I cast with it for a long time over a Coleman camp stove. I recommend getting a Lee 20# electric bottom pour if you are going to cast a lot and just want done with the whole business, I recommend a pile of hickory and a single little ladle if you're looking for PC/HC :grin:

 

[bart_anastasi]

You also have to remember that sometimes you just put the mold down for a couple of seconds and it turns into a lot more time.

your spru cutter can cool and all of a sudden the lead will just form a plug as it tries to enter the mold.

All part of the learning process.

I use a bottom pour pot myself from Lee and it works good. Did not cost to much to buy as I remember and keeps me from getting to close to the kitchen tools.

 

[Allan Gray]

If you're a hand at welding, for a long time I cast from a pot I made by welding a piece of heavy wall pipe onto a flat square plate (didn't like tippy little pots full of hot lead) and put a heavy wire bail-handle on it. I cast with it for a long time over a Coleman camp stove. I recommend getting a Lee 20# electric bottom pour if you are going to cast a lot and just want done with the whole business, I recommend a pile of hickory and a single little ladle if you're looking for PC/HC :grin:

I just remembered a conversation I had with a plumber on my job site some time ago :shocked2: Oddly enough, this goes back to arguing about BBQ. He takes 3" caps for ductile iron drain pipe and fashions them into little wood chip smokers for his gas grill! Put a handle on one, grind out the threads and make a lip on the side and it would be perfect.

Garage sales in my area never yield any good stuff...All I ever find is discarded excercise equipment and old paper back books by Oprah :barf:

 

[Allan Gray]

I was rummaging through our cupboards and came across this little tea pot...seems like it would be perfect. It's cast iron, very thick, around 5" in diameter and 3" tall. It is lined with what looks like some sort of ceramic.
The bottle of rum was added for scale.

What do you think?

 

[Rebel]

From your posts i am assuming that you are trying to pour the lead in the mould from the pot, right? If so, that is where your cool lead problem is coming from. By the time you remove the pot from the flame and pour a ball the lead in the pot and pot have cooled off some. You need to use a Ladle to dip the lead from the pot and pour it into the mould. Then your pot of lead stays the same temp.

 

[fw707]

From your posts i am assuming that you are trying to pour the lead in the mould from the pot, right? If so, that is where your cool lead problem is coming from.

Yep, you need a ladle. I like the one with the little spout tip on it.

 

[Allan Gray]

The little tea kettle worked great!
I put it on my propane camp stove and kept the mold warm along side of it.
The spout on the kettle is just the right size to pour into the mold. I was able to cast 55 balls in no time. I dropped them into a 5 gal. bucket full of water with about 2 inches of sand on the bottom. When I got on a roll I was spitting them out pretty fast. However, my hand, (inside a glove,) was getting pretty toasty.
I do think that the electric pot and ladle would be a safer and more sensible way to do it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am glad you finished with that observation, Mr. Gray. I was begining to wonder how your hand could stand the heat being that close to the top of the molten lead. Even wearing a glove, most handles on teapots are just to close to let you do that, even if you put the lid on the teapot.Pouring from a teapot would have you pouring molten lead directly from the main supply, and that is as close to a bottom pour mold as you could expect to get. I just would not want to be controlling that much molten metal on such a pour. I have enough lead burns that made it through gloves, and shirts over the years from one mishap or another. Lifting an entire pot of molten lead up to pour into a mold is well beyond what I would consider safe handling practices. And, I would not even try it if the handle swiveled on both ends as most handles on Teapots do. A slight bump could have that pot turned on its side, and molten lead in your lap.

I am glad that you got that mold to work for you and you now have a batch of RBs to use while you sort out your casting needs. Good Shooting. :thumbsup:

 

[fw707]

I dropped them into a 5 gal. bucket full of water with about 2 inches of sand on the bottom.

I drop the balls directly from the mold to the green COTTON hand towel in the left of my picture and it works fine. Just make sure you use 100% cotton because any synthetic will melt.
The electric pot works great, but if you're just gonna cast a few balls every now and then an iron or steel pot on a camp stove is fine too.
Whatever you choose, I hope you get a ladle. Pouring from the kettle or any other pot could lead to an accident that would cripple you for life.