Caucasian Miquelet "Cossack" Pistol & Locks

[cyten]

Beautiful example of a cartridge case from around the 1820's. The most common way of carrying these cartridges or "Gaziri" was on pockets sewed onto the coat or "Chokha/Cherkesska" however, not all tribes in the Caucasus wore them.

Azerbaijani outfit with a similar case from 1860's

Drawing of a Circassian from 1787 with one as well

 

[rickystl]

That is a beautiful Caucasian knee pistol. And great photo also. Only the second/third pic I've seen showing the knee pistol. Interesting that these pistols never caught on in Europe, since they most likely originated there. But they were extremely popular throughout much of the Ottoman Empire during the period. this example lacks a sling ring on it's left side, and appears built without one.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

WOW!!! What a wonderful looking cartridge case. And appears complete. And in the second photo down - there's that Ottoman style powder measure again. LOL The plunger in the measure works off of friction only for the adjustments, no set screw. But I can confirm from use that they work well and are precision made. The shop that made these measurers must have made them by the thousands.

I had this pouch/cartridge made for me in a Caucasian-ish style. Not a copy of any original. But it does give the flavor. The Gaziri wood bases are new made. But the silver, cloistered caps are original.

Rick

 

[cyten]

That is a beautiful Caucasian knee pistol. And great photo also. Only the second/third pic I've seen showing the knee pistol. Interesting that these pistols never caught on in Europe, since they most likely originated there. But they were extremely popular throughout much of the Ottoman Empire during the period. this example lacks a sling ring on it's left side, and appears built without one.

Rick

It is strange the stock form was so popular, I've asked collectors in the region and none of them had any theories of why. Here is another period photo of one but with a flintlock, carried by an Armenian

WOW!!! What a wonderful looking cartridge case. And appears complete. And in the second photo down - there's that Ottoman style powder measure again. LOL The plunger in the measure works off of friction only for the adjustments, no set screw. But I can confirm from use that they work well and are precision made. The shop that made these measurers must have made them by the thousands.

I had this pouch/cartridge made for me in a Caucasian-ish style. Not a copy of any original. But it does give the flavor. The Gaziri wood bases are new made. But the silver, cloistered caps are original.

Rick

Slick looking bag, need a Chokha coat as well to hold the Gaziri. Of the three powder measures I have, only one of them is a bit loose, and only towards the higher end of the plunger.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Cyten. Happy New Year !! (I hope).

Collectors of Eastern Arms often refer - inaccurately - to these guns as Knee Pistols. And I'm as guilty of doing this as others. LOL Some collector long ago had a theory that the guns were fired with the butt positioned on the knee while on horseback. Of course, this never made any sense. But somehow, the "nick name" has stuck all these years. While there are numerous examples of European pistols with blunderbuss style barrels, they all have more typical pistol style stocks. My personal belief is that the mini-rifle style stocks originated from certain Spanish Catalonian style pistols from the late 17th to early 18th Centuries with the same/similar stocks. Also, the blunderbuss style barrels remained in vogue in Spain long after they fell out of favor in the rest of Europe. Spanish gunsmiths were still making blunderbuss all the way into the percussion era for clients wanting a personal protection weapon. But it is curious that the stock style only caught on in the Eastern markets. The stock does indeed work to facilitate both the grip and likely the recoil. Judging by the amount of remaining examples today, they were indeed popular. And we only see the stock style on the blunderbuss pistols. Conversely, blunderbuss "shoulder" guns remained popular in Europe for a long time. But you only occasionally see a shoulder blunderbuss of Ottoman style.

LOL Well, I don't have a Chokha coat, I do have the correct hat. LOL Made from genuine curly sheep imported from the correct Region, but can't remember where. Would have to ask the Polish maker.

Rick

 

[cyten]

Hi Cyten. Happy New Year !! (I hope).

Collectors of Eastern Arms often refer - inaccurately - to these guns as Knee Pistols. And I'm as guilty of doing this as others. LOL Some collector long ago had a theory that the guns were fired with the butt positioned on the knee while on horseback. Of course, this never made any sense. But somehow, the "nick name" has stuck all these years. While there are numerous examples of European pistols with blunderbuss style barrels, they all have more typical pistol style stocks. My personal belief is that the mini-rifle style stocks originated from certain Spanish Catalonian style pistols from the late 17th to early 18th Centuries with the same/similar stocks. Also, the blunderbuss style barrels remained in vogue in Spain long after they fell out of favor in the rest of Europe. Spanish gunsmiths were still making blunderbuss all the way into the percussion era for clients wanting a personal protection weapon. But it is curious that the stock style only caught on in the Eastern markets. The stock does indeed work to facilitate both the grip and likely the recoil. Judging by the amount of remaining examples today, they were indeed popular. And we only see the stock style on the blunderbuss pistols. Conversely, blunderbuss "shoulder" guns remained popular in Europe for a long time. But you only occasionally see a shoulder blunderbuss of Ottoman style.

LOL Well, I don't have a Chokha coat, I do have the correct hat. LOL Made from genuine curly sheep imported from the correct Region, but can't remember where. Would have to ask the Polish maker.

Rick

Happy New Year to you as well, it is a cold one here in Russia at -20F, that hat would sure come in useful about now!
I agree with your assessment on the Spanish origins as I have seen some examples. I have also seen these many times referred to as a "Dag" among some collectors. I've looked into where this could come from but could only find some 19th century Scottish slang for a pistol or knife. It is interesting as well, that the Caucasian variety of these blunderbuss often emulate the butt stock of their rifles too.

 

[Sam squanch]

Some of that fancy stock wood looks fragile. Maybe the different grip was stronger in hard use than the traditional pistol grip. Didn’t I see you in chesterfield wearing that hat?

 

[TobJohn]

Beautiful example of a cartridge case from around the 1820's. The most common way of carrying these cartridges or "Gaziri" was on pockets sewed onto the coat or "Chokha/Cherkesska" however, not all tribes in the Caucasus wore them.View attachment 280767View attachment 280768View attachment 280769View attachment 280770

Azerbaijani outfit with a similar case from 1860's
View attachment 280771

Drawing of a Circassian from 1787 with one as well
View attachment 280772

What are the cartridges made out of? They have a close resemblance to Indian cartridges.

These cultures don’t normally seem to have too much cross over, so an interesting possible connection.

 

[cyten]

What are the cartridges made out of? They have a close resemblance to Indian cartridges.

These cultures don’t normally seem to have too much cross over, so an interesting possible connection.

They are made from ivory, as the Indian ones are. Yes, it is an interesting crossover, I think Persian influence poured over into both of these cultures and to me, it seems that these cartridges have an Islamic influence that I suspect came from Iran. There is also the stock design, both India & the Caucasus have very slim almost pool cue stocks that may have been influenced by Iran. I have also seen that the Persian inlay art of Khatam is popular in parts of India as well. I have seen some Persian & Indian stocks decorated in this manner, and here is Circassian pistol that is stocked in Khatam style.

A Persian rifle stocked in Khatam, courtesy of @rickystl

And possibly Persian pistol with a Turkish lock in a Khatam stock

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of any of the Toradors I've seen with the same style.

Also, can see a big influence from the Persian style

in the Ottoman style

 

[TobJohn]

They are made from ivory, as the Indian ones are. Yes, it is an interesting crossover, I think Persian influence poured over into both of these cultures and to me, it seems that these cartridges have an Islamic influence that I suspect came from Iran. There is also the stock design, both India & the Caucasus have very slim almost pool cue stocks that may have been influenced by Iran. I have also seen that the Persian inlay art of Khatam is popular in parts of India as well. I have seen some Persian & Indian stocks decorated in this manner, and here is Circassian pistol that is stocked in Khatam style.
View attachment 282123

A Persian rifle stocked in Khatam, courtesy of @rickystl

And possibly Persian pistol with a Turkish lock in a Khatam stock
View attachment 282130

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of any of the Toradors I've seen with the same style.

The Persian connection makes a lot of sense, particularly because the Indian cartridges are from the north.

 

[rickystl]

Look at this one going up for sale !! LOL....

 

[Sam squanch]

Is that supposed to be an alligator or a snake?!?

 

[cyten]

Looks familiar...

 

[Sam squanch]

Looks familiar...

View attachment 282868

Can you translate?

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

I will try...much of the script is missing...difficult to say the least...russian partly; someone else can do a better job translating....

"wooden and mother-of-pearl figurines and
The lock and the shank were decorated with gold
carnations. Barrels and locks are different.
lota notch of the Transcaucasian type;
2. Kubachi type pistols.
Transcaucasian black ornament
Finished, undecorated silver clip pistols were decorated with kubachitin and arrived at the tifa and linings on the apple;"

 

[Sam squanch]

Thank you

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

For what? Not much help as the description is quite poor. What does the auction state in the description in Ricks post # 191 above...maybe there is a better description...especially if they want to get a good auction price! It certainly seems the same piece.

Cyten pulled a miracle finding/researching that article or catalogue listing.

 

[Rudyard]

Thats what Cyten does he amazes us all.per normal'
Regards Rudyard

 

[Billy-by-gosh]

Is that supposed to be an alligator or a snake?!?

Might represent a Dragon or ??

 

[cyten]

The picture came from this book "Weapons of the Caucasus"

The caption directly beneath the drawing basically says nothing more than "Pistol with stock in the shape of a fantasy creature"

"wooden and mother-of-pearl figurines and
The lock and the shank were decorated with gold
carnations. Barrels and locks are different.
lota notch of the Transcaucasian type;
2. Kubachi type pistols.
Transcaucasian black ornament
Finished, undecorated silver clip pistols were decorated with kubachitin and arrived at the tifa and linings on the apple;"

Unfortunately none of the text pertains to the picture, it was in a section describing regional pistols. I have seen a couple similar guns but the style was like something from Africa or Borneo, but with a Caucasian lock. I'll see if I can find some photos from a hard drive.
I guess the same gun Rick posted sold at auction last year in Tennessee, I found the listing and photos. Not much info in the listing

EDIT: if anyone is interested, there is a free copy (although in Russian) online of the book mentioned in this post: HERE