CCI Magnum #11

[Joe Hollen]

At the moment I am firing RWS #11's, Saw that the local shop has in CCI Magnum #11, Are they a big benefit comapared to any other make of #ll cap? All opinions appreciated. .Dirty-.30

 

[necchi]

IMHO, second only to the old green RWS caps, more reliable than the standard CCI.
When my supply of RWS is gone I will goto CCI mag.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Some people complain the ccI magnum cap doesn't give as small of groups as the regular. I have shot both the regular and magnum and with my old eyes I cann't detect the difference. But I still save my old RWS for deer hunting!

 

[paulvallandigham]

The Magnum caps are designed to help ignite the Substitute powders. They are simply NOT needed to ignite Black powder. Save your money. Buy the standard #11 percussion caps. :hatsoff:

 

[RickD]

I`ve been shooting Remington #11 caps..Not a problem one with them

 

[paulvallandigham]

Did I say you would have problems using #11 magnum caps? Where???

I said they were intended to use to ignite substitute powders, which have a higher flash point than does Black Powder. The Magnum cap is NOT necessary for good ignition of Black Powder.

There are some negatives reported in using magnum caps to ignite black powder, and the subs, that involve the heavy flash Moving the ball, or bullet partially forward, before the main charge is burned and produces enough gas to propel the bullet down the barrel. This creates different chamber pressures, and different barrel harmonics.

No, the average guy hunting, and plinking with a percussion half stock is Not likely to be able to hold close enough with his open sights to see any difference. But, the guys who ring out Every new item on the target benches do Notice these things, and they report them. They Chronograph them. They test them every which way to Sunday to find out if they can get better, or worse accuracy using a different cap.

Right now, the target shooters favor the RWS caps, then the Standard Remington, then the standard CCI, for lower SDV and better groups.

I am trying to give you the best advice on buying and using caps so that you can save your money by avoiding buying the newest "Gimmick" that is not necessary.

Several Years ago, a candid manufacturer of fishing lures told a reporter he was not in the business of Catching fish. He was in the business of catching FISHERMEN! The Gun Industry is NO different.

I can't estimate the amount of money I have saved because I listened to wiser men and women than I was early in my involvement in this sport, and, taking their advice, didn't buy some of the "stuff" that was all the rage back then. Over the Years, I have tested many things, and between what I have done, what other close friends and relatives have done, and our shared experiences, I have received a fine education I CHOOSE to pass on to those new to this sport.

I can't make you listen, and I can't make you read my words carefully. I can only hope that you slow down, and understand I have no financial interest in your decision to do or not do something. My Scottish, and Swedish genes, as well my upbringing, have made me more than just Frugal when spending discretionary funds. I hear Lincoln screaming in my pockets all the time! :shocked2: :rotf:

I got into this sport because it was a cheaper way to shoot a lot more. Most of the folks on this forum count their pennies, just as I have done. If I can help them understand WHY I recommend a product, and why I don't recommend another, and I can save them money, while insuring that the saving is Not at the Cost of Poor accuracy, then I think I have served them well.

If you want to spend your hard-earned cash on caps that you don't need, on replacing nipples more often because of their use, HEY!- Knock your self out. Just let me know from time to time how that's working out for you. :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

If the exterior flash is any indication the CCI Magnums are very similar to the RWS 1075's.

Both of these produce a noticably larger flash around the nipple than any of the standard #11 caps.

That said, I think if you have been shooting RWS and want to switch brands the CCI Magnum caps will preform much the same as what you've been using.

 

[jan buck]

just bought 1000 #11 cci standard caps and have had nothing but hang fires in my tc guns. but not with our two cva pistols. never a problem with win bp caps. don't know what the deal is with them.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If it shoots well on the CVA, but not your T/C, the problem is obviously with the gun( T/C) and not the caps!!! :hmm:

Check the length and condition of the nipple you are using on the T/C. Then, with an empty gun, put some lipstick, or inletting black on the top edge of the nipple, and lower the hammer down onto the nipple. Now, cock back the hammer to its full cock notch, put a good light into the skirt, and see of there is a FULL RING on the face of the hammer, If not, the hammer is Not striking the nipple squarely.

You can buy a small grinding bit at your hardware store to fit a dremel tool. You can use it with any hand drill, however, if you don't own a dremel or similar product. Grind off the face of the hammer Where the DYE shows- those are the high spots. Rest after all the dye is removed, along with some metal, to measure your progress. When you get a FULL, 360 degree ring of dye on the face of your hammer, Then your ignition problems should be solved. By hitting the nipple squarely, the energy of the Main spring is transferred uniformly around the entire top of the nipple, and Nipple working life will be extended, too.

Most misfires with percussion locks are cause by work nipples, usually worn on one side badly enough that the blow of the hammer has to reShape the copper cap to the damaged shape of the nipple, before the cap will fire. Hangfires occur for the same reason, but are a warning sign that the nipple is getting worn down enough that it should be replaced.

 

[jan buck]

paul,
thanks for your insight. i did switch out the nipple but hang fires still occurred. why would the gun go off instantly with the win caps and not with the cci? i agree, the position of the hammer strike could have some bearing on it as you state ie- not striking the nipple squarely.
i will be shooting my renegade with the gm .58 cal drop in barrel today and will report back later as to how it went.again thanks for your reply.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The Winchester caps are probably made using a softer copper alloy, which collapses easier under the hammer blow, compared to the CCI caps.

I had some Winchester caps years ago, but have never found them being sold by vendors at Friendship. I was not sure they were even making caps still, until the were mentioned on this forum awhile back. ( I rarely find sources for Remington Caps, either, altho I did buy a thousand years ago from a vendor at Friendship.)

I do know that the CCI caps are made tougher than other caps, and assume that is a corporate decision, and not an accident. The harder caps are less likely to split off bits of cap to go flying into your face, or someone standing next to you.

That is why its important to check the face of the hammer to make sure its making full contact with the top of the nipple. A properly tuned hammer will fire ANY cap reliably.

Oh, a friend puts a small "bar" of metal into the skirts of his hammer, soldered in place, so that the bar strikes across the nipple, not much differently than a rectangular firing pin strikes a .22 rimfire cartridge. He swears by this technique to insure reliable firing.[ Now, he began making guns Years before Dremel Tools came on the market, with all the tiny grinding "bits" you can buy for different work. I suspect he had no way of turning the face of the hammer flat, or to square it to the nipple, unless he tried to do it by bending the gooseneck of the hammer. UGH! :shake: ] :thumbsup:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

just bought 1000 #11 cci standard caps and have had nothing but hang fires in my tc guns. but not with our two cva pistols. never a problem with win bp caps. don't know what the deal is with them.

yup, have had nothing but hangfires with non mag caps.

I started shooting mag caps years ago and have NEVER! had a misfire or even a hangfire for that matter.
I won't shoot anything else and I notice with my chronograph that I get more consistancy with # 11 mags.
It had helped me get MOA at 100yrds with all my greenmtnbarrels.
I highly recomend using them for better accuracy.
:thumbsup:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Right now, the target shooters favor the RWS caps, then the Standard Remington, then the standard CCI, for lower SDV and better groups.

This is actually not true Paul.
There is still a very small group of competive shooters who feel they get lower SDV with non mag caps but their getting their butts kicked by people like Rabbit and John as well and a majority of cap lock long range shooters.
Like them I have spend hundreds of hours perfecting my sport and #11 mag caps are much more consistant than standard caps.
Just like in the Blk powder cartridge world the idea that a lesser spark from your primer will give you better accuracy is fadeing fast.
we are heating up our 45-70s and 90 with fed 15 mag primers and getting MOA out to 600yrds.
Even all the rigby longrang muzzleloaders are using mags.
Yes I know there are a few hold out Paul like yourself but if you sat down with two hundred caps and spent some time with your Chrono you would see the benifits.
:thumbsup:

 

[ohio ramrod]

A very simple "fix" for hammers not striking the nipples squarely is to mix up a small drop ( I said small ) of J B weld and place it in the recess of the hammer, then place a .005 shim in the recess, gently lower the hammer onto the nipple and wait until the J B has set up.I have found this to be much simplier than soldering a piece into place. :hmm:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I suspect that you are using a different lot of Magnum caps, than I did. The early versions were all over the place for me, and others. I suspect the factory made some improvements, or you just got a lucky Lot number. I did spend time with Magnum caps and a chronographer back when they came out. It didn't take me thousands of shots to figure out I was not getting improvements in groups, nor what was the cause.

The lesson here is Not to argue about this, but to remind folks to periodically try different brands, and even different LOT numbers of both powders and caps. My brother and I found this out with different lots of powder from the same company, when we sifted the powders through his screens. We got different quantities of "fines " from different lots, and we found that if we screened both Goex, and Swiss powders, they shot as clean as each other, leaving no more coarse residue in the barrel with one powder over the other, provided that OP Wads were used. Otherwise, you have to use a very tight Patch Ball combination to raise the temperature and pressure to burn the powders completely.

 

[arctichomesteader]

They work fine for rifles, but I found they tended to jam my revolvers up. I use remington caps in my revolvers, and whatever I can get cheapest for my rifles.

 

[jan buck]

well the boy and i shot today, and the cci caps went off with out a hitch. i shot for group off the bench at 60 yds.
60grs of wano ff, ball, patch. fired three shots with each brand of cap. cci groups were 6 inches and loads with win caps right at 2 inches.
strange. :idunno: i do a lot of shooting, so i know its not me. i reload/handload and shoot finn/russian rifles as well as 1903/1903a3 milsurps frequently, anyway guess i'll get a couple new nipples, but....win caps will be going into the woods come november :blah:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Use a chronograph to test both brands( and others you find) to see what differences in velocity you get, and what changes in the SDV results using both kinds of caps, ON NEW NIPPLES. Keep all other elements of the load the same. The Chronograph will tell you a lot about what the caps do, and don't do. If the results using a new nipple are not that different, then test the Old nipple vs. the New nipple, to see what the chronograph tells you.

Most people don't have the necessary gauges to measure things like the inside, or "pin" diameter of the hole through the nipple. But, very little erosion there can cause all kinds of problems with ignition.

I am personally troubled about the Change in what you report is occurring with the gun. You began describing Hang Fires. Then you spoke of Mis-fires. Now you speak of different group sizes at 50 yds using the different brands. Did the Hang fires STOP? The misfires??? Did you put dye markers on the top edge of the nipple, and lower the hammer to the nipple to transfer dye, so you could see where, and how much of the hammer is striking the nipple??? Hang fires and Misfires are not the same thing.

Group size variations can occur for a lot of different reasons. Rarely is a change in brand of cap going to do much more than change the Point of Impact on the target, either raising it, or lowering it, and then only 1/2" or so, at that range. Rarely is there horizontal dispersion of a grip due to a change of brand of cap. Groups sizes open up, or close, when you change the Ball dimension or Patch and lube thickness, or change the powder charge used. Rarely will you see a radical change in group size at only 50 yds, JUST by changing brands of caps. Did the winds pick up in velocity during your shooting? Wind direction and velocity changes are usually the main reasons I see good shooters all of a sudden shooting mediocre groups. :hmm:

 

[jan buck]

first off i never mentioned misfire, but hang fire.
which occurred with a different renegade.54 cal]
rifle had the standard short tc nipple on it that came with the gun when i bought it used so i don't know how old it is. the gun i was shooting yesterday is a renegade with a NEW gm drop in barrel in .58 cal. since i didn't have a new nipple to put on the .54 i took out the .58 to see if i would experience hang fires which i did not. as to the accurracy issue, i'm at a loss. it shot lower than usual but groups were larger with the cci caps. now i suppose i could try different load combos ect to bring out the accuracy. also noticed the caps fit very loosely on the nipple[both brands] squeezing them a little would help i imagine. on vacation this week so maybe i can get down to my range and chrono some loads and mess with the two rifles. :thumbsup: forgot to mention we had high winds here yesterday so that could have been a factor also shooting down hill slightly.