My new 1858 Remington 36 Cal chainfired on me this Saturday. I've been trying to find an accurate load. Short story - 30 grains Pyrodex P, moose snot over balls, no wad. Chamber on left side fired. The cap stayed on. When I pulled it off, it had not fired - so much for chainfires coming from the nipple. Not saying that can't happen, but it didn't happen this time. How that flame got past the lube on the ball is beyond me. It was my third shot, so maybe the lube melted. Didn't cause any damage or injure me.
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Chainfire on 36 Remington
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WV_Hillbilly
45 Cal.
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I am always curious...
What size (diameter) balls were loaded when the chainfire occurred?
I appreciate that your shared your experience with the rest of us. Thanks.
Regards, and shoot safely!
WV_Hillbilly
What size (diameter) balls were loaded when the chainfire occurred?
I appreciate that your shared your experience with the rest of us. Thanks.
Regards, and shoot safely!
WV_Hillbilly
Smokin6Gun
40 Cal.
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What I'm wonderin' is how the chamber went off without the flame or hot pressured gases did not set the cap off. Was the cap blackened from the BP goin' off? That's suprizing as most chain fire do occur from the cone end of the cylinder, from caps falling off. But as you can see anything can happen. The greases blow off or melt when fired. That's why I started making Lube Pills to go between the powder and ball. Parafin, Beeswax or Bolwax, Olive oil...melted cooled and cut out in .44 or .36 caliber. I would recommend to try them, not only protect againt frontal chain fire, but lube the arbor/cylinder pin, and barrel keeping fouling soft so as Rev don't bind up. Can shoot all day w/o cleanin'. Also act as a gascheck for ball to groove dimensions.
I too would say check your ball size if usin' a .451 go to a .454. I use .457 ball homecast they leave a good swedge ring when pressed into the chambers. That's with an ASP 1858 and a Uberti 1858. The Pietta takes .452 Lee cast.
I too would say check your ball size if usin' a .451 go to a .454. I use .457 ball homecast they leave a good swedge ring when pressed into the chambers. That's with an ASP 1858 and a Uberti 1858. The Pietta takes .452 Lee cast.
amccall
40 Cal.
One thing 30 grns. in a 36 cal. is a lot of powder. I do not even shoot that much with my 44 cal. I think that might be one reason why you had the problem. Also do you get a ring of lead when you seat your ball in you cylinder? If not you might want to go to a little larger size ball. Also you might want to use some filler if you reduce your powder to keep your ball as close to the end of the cylinder, to help the accuracy. :v
This is a 36 caliber. I was using a .375 and yes a ring of lead always comes off when I seat these balls. Also, they are Hornadys not ones I cast. I have shot this gun about 50 times with at least ten of those shots in 30 grains. The cap was not burned but still had the green stuff inside.
I am not happy with the accuracy of this gun. I have tried everything. 20grs, 25grs, 30grs - wad over powder or lube over ball. I have used Kik and Goex blackpowder. Amazingly I finally managed to get the holes in the black area of a Walmart pistol target at 20 yards by using 30 grains of Pyrodex P. That load is not what I would like to shoot but was trying everything.
Maybe it needs to be shot more. It is a Pietta from Traditions. 5 1/2 inch barrel.
I'm not talking a little off here. At first, it was all over the paper and I could only shot it 12 times before it was so tight I couldb't turn the cylinder.
I've been shooting revolvers for four years and I have an 1849, 1851, 1860 and another 1858 with 8" barrel. All of these are pretty accurate.
I am not happy with the accuracy of this gun. I have tried everything. 20grs, 25grs, 30grs - wad over powder or lube over ball. I have used Kik and Goex blackpowder. Amazingly I finally managed to get the holes in the black area of a Walmart pistol target at 20 yards by using 30 grains of Pyrodex P. That load is not what I would like to shoot but was trying everything.
Maybe it needs to be shot more. It is a Pietta from Traditions. 5 1/2 inch barrel.
I'm not talking a little off here. At first, it was all over the paper and I could only shot it 12 times before it was so tight I couldb't turn the cylinder.
I've been shooting revolvers for four years and I have an 1849, 1851, 1860 and another 1858 with 8" barrel. All of these are pretty accurate.
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I also have a .36 remington made by Lyman, but a .375 is actually too small. The recommended ball for this pistol is .380 according to the owners manual. Maybe a bigger ball will gi you a better seal in the cylinder and fill the barrel better giving you better accuracy .... Anything is worth a try at this point.
Ohio Rusty
Ohio Rusty
John Taylor
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Something to check on your pistol. Push a ball through the barrel and using a micrometer check the diameter of the widest part of the ball ( groove diameter of barrel). If it is bigger than the cylinder bore then that could be why it is shooting all over the place. The ideal is to have the groove diameter about .001" under the bore diameter of the cylinder. I have seen many navies that do not shoot for this reason. The cylinder can be reamed out and polished and a larger ball used.
As for chain firing, it only happened to me once with a Remington 58. Don't know what I'm doing right or wrong.
As for chain firing, it only happened to me once with a Remington 58. Don't know what I'm doing right or wrong.
On the chain firing; had you been shooting the gun or did the chain firing occur on the first round or cylinder?
When we went through this before I originally wondered if the air/powder/etc in an adjacent cylinder had an attraction for hot gases. In other words, if there was a hair line groove etc in a chamber that didn't give a complete seal- could the cold air/powder in the cylinder "suck in" hot gases. You would really need a chemist on that one. How well did the caps fit the nipples?
When we went through this before I originally wondered if the air/powder/etc in an adjacent cylinder had an attraction for hot gases. In other words, if there was a hair line groove etc in a chamber that didn't give a complete seal- could the cold air/powder in the cylinder "suck in" hot gases. You would really need a chemist on that one. How well did the caps fit the nipples?
This was my third shot from that cylinder. It was the second time the cylinder had been loaded and fired. The next chamber to the left is the one that fired. The cap was tight and did not go off on the misfire which was odd unless the nipple was stopped up.
I hear that Lee makes a .380 mould for around $18.
Stars & Bars: This is one of the strangest chainfires I've heard of. Not that chainfires are totally unknown but for the cap to still be there after the cylinder fired is amazing.
There is nothing behind the nipple to keep the cap in place, and the chamber firing should have blown the cap completely off of the nipple.
You must be right when you say the hole in the nipple must have been plugged although if the chamber had been fired once before that usually cleans the vent hole out instead of plugging it up.
Perhaps it's going to far to say that I think you should take the gun (or at least the cylinder) to a gunsmith or a engine rebuilding company and have it checked for cracks. They can do this using Penetrant inspection or Magnetic Particle inspection.
I'm only suggesting this because there is a possibility that the web between the chambers is cracked.
A crack at this location would "open up" due to the high pressure allowing the burning powders gas to get into the adjacent chamber which would result in the chain fire.
If I'm wrong, you would be out a few bucks.
If I'm right it could save you from another occurance.
zonie
There is nothing behind the nipple to keep the cap in place, and the chamber firing should have blown the cap completely off of the nipple.
You must be right when you say the hole in the nipple must have been plugged although if the chamber had been fired once before that usually cleans the vent hole out instead of plugging it up.
Perhaps it's going to far to say that I think you should take the gun (or at least the cylinder) to a gunsmith or a engine rebuilding company and have it checked for cracks. They can do this using Penetrant inspection or Magnetic Particle inspection.
I'm only suggesting this because there is a possibility that the web between the chambers is cracked.
A crack at this location would "open up" due to the high pressure allowing the burning powders gas to get into the adjacent chamber which would result in the chain fire.
If I'm wrong, you would be out a few bucks.
If I'm right it could save you from another occurance.
zonie
crockett said:
There's no vacuum in a chamber to "suck" in the hot gasses. The gasses are under a lot of pressure though, and can force themselves through a tiny opening. There had to be one somewhere for them to get through. Doesn't sound like it started from the rear.
WV_Hillbilly
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Stars&Bars said:
Here's your source for .380 diameter round balls.
[url] http://nationalbullet.com/index.php?name=Misc_Products[/url]
I also have to agree that 30gr of Pyrodex is quite a heavy charge for a .36cal cap-n-ball revolver. Have you considered using corn meal (or another filler) and a much lighter powder charge to see if you can get a decent accuracy load?
While the unfired cap on the chainfire chamber is quite a mystery--the combination of heavy recoil and loose fitting balls with no grease (or lubed wad) are all typically factors that set up the conditions for a possible chainfire event to occur.
If you have any more information on this event, would you please let me know...? Thanks!
Regards, and shoot safely!
WV_Hillbilly
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I have never had a chain fire when using a wad over the powder, only the two times I forgot to put lube over the ball before I went to wads. I have never been convinced that chain fires occur at the nipples. It is a good bet that your lack of accuracy is due to under sized chambers. This is very, very common with imported repros. A larger ball may give more contact with the rifling due to having a longer waist, but I do not think it will improve things very much. You can open a chamber 2 or three thousandths with a dowel rod and 220 grit wet and dry sandpaper. If they need more, it is probably better to have them reamed. Also, the reason you got better accuracy with the heavy load is because it put the ball closer to the chamber mouth, where it needs to be.
Big Iron Barrels offers chamber reaming as a service. They adjust the chamber size to be just slightly larger than the bore. It does make a big improvement in accuracy. I don't know why so many revolvers are sent with undersized chambers. That'll ruin accuracy every time.
How much would that kind of thing cost to have done, do you know?
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