Challenge Can you ID this smoothbore?

[Grenadier1758]

When working to a pattern, most parts looked similar, they were not interchangeable. At that time most guns were custom built to a pattern. They may have looked alike, but they were all different.

 

[Artificer]

PRIVATE VIEW AND PROOF ENGLISH , as I said earlier trade gun made up from surplus parts .Most likely from Leige.

Definitely agree they are private English View and Proof Marks. The Crown over the V as used for both and these look like Birmingham marks to me, though they could have been from what was known as "Country" Proof Houses or "Private" Proof Houses set up by some barrel makers, themselves. Whether this gun or any of these parts were made in Britain (probably not many, if at all), the barrel was viewed and proofed in England.

So you're saying this gun was assembled in Belgium with different surplus parts from all over?
From my understanding parts were not interchangeable back then. Meaning it would take some heavy customization to get it all to fit together. And maybe even fabricating a stock that fits it all. Did they really do that?

Of course I am not trying to speak for 1601phill.

"Gun Stocking" was one of the approximate 18 to 23 separate specialties in the gunsmithing trade in the 18th century in England and the Continent. This specialty trade took barrels, locks, furniture and stock blanks and turned them into complete guns. Gun stockers worked either on military guns, civilian guns" made for the trade" or sometimes both; depending on their location and time period.

"Made for the Trade," is at least a 17th through 19th century English term that seems to confuse many of we modern Americans. We often think of a "Trade Gun" as British or French guns made for the fur trade or trade to the NA's in North America. In fact, it really encompasses guns made and sold by and to civilians in England and as export items and sometimes the East India Company. The guns could have sold to use in privately owned ships, the slave trade or other sources in Africa, India and other places around the world - as well as North America. Maybe a good way to describe it for we modern Americans is that "guns made for the trade" or assembled from surplus military parts "for the trade" meant they were Retail Sales to Civilians and sometimes the Government. However, just about the time we think we can wrap that up in one tidy package, it sometimes also refers to parts (barrels, locks and other parts) made by civilians and sold to the Government for British Ordnance Approved/Assembled Military Arms.

Gus

 

[stevemezz]

Wow thank you for the info. That answered all the questions I had and kind of makes this mystery make sense. I really appreciate the help.
Now the million dollar question...
What do you guys think it's worth?? I've had a couple people contact me wishing to buy it. Is it something that holds a lot of value or should I hang onto it as a wall hanger??

 

[Artificer]

Unfortunately, I can't help you much on that. Prices vary by the interest in the local area and of course if anyone has any or much disposable income. I transferred back home to Virginia from California in 1994, so I am WAY out of date on the going prices on things out there. When I was up to date back there, a gun like yours would have sold for more money East of the Mississippi than in California. Today there is a larger market available due to online gun auction sites.

Glad you could use the info and you are most welcome.

Gus

 

[Farren55]

Ok so some research here, in the past all firearms imported into the UK required a UK proofing (my guess is that's where the proof marks came from) as for the gun itself i'm guessing that it was produced as a full length gun then cut down.

as for the lock while close to the british found some details that appear to be a German manufacture.

 

[stevemezz]

So, to beat a dead horse...
German lock
French stock
Belgian barrel
And misc hardware?
Or am I way off? LOL. So confused.

 

[Farren55]

German lock, German stock, British barrel.

Think this is coming together.

 

[stevemezz]

Ok cool thanks. And do we have any idea around when these parts were made?
And from what I can gather this isn't a very pricey gun. I should hang it on the wall as a decoration?

 

[flintlockmdj]

A gun made from various extra parts?

 

[Farren55]

Honestly I'd get it checked by a gunsmith, if it's in good condition try putting some powder through it, but that's just me.

 

[pargent]

NO the barrel does not have the required foreign made stamp. It is made up from various surplus parts , most likely post 1816 , barrel and lock is English , stock is from a cut down French musket .

 

[Farren55]

That's not the french stock, french stocks had a more graceful curve for the cheek while the German stocks, like the one here, had a more shallow squared cheek rest.