Changing patch material and lube?

[Hans74]

I sometimes scratch me head in wonder when I shoot my Southern Mountain flint why this is going on just changing patch material and lube.
I was getting ready for deer last fall and shot leaning on a post checking the load and shot a darn nice group on a very windy day.
A couple days ago I pulled out ole sparky again to get some practice rounds and used the same load and patches and shot too 100 yards leaning on the same post and had a hard time holding paper.
These rifles have been my friend since I was about 16 years old and I still wonder what is going on. It don't matter if I use the flints or the caps. It cant always be conditions.





Sorry for the large pictures. Bucket wont let me make a thumbnail for some reason.

Butch

 

[Grenadier1758]

My opinion is the first shot reflects being shot from a clean bore with all the oils and solvents that dried after the last cleaning. The remainder are being shot from a bore that has the same relative condition due to the shot to shot fouling.

You may also have some first shot jitters that throw the first shot off.

Then with respect to shooting a muzzleloader, shot placement happens.

Good shooting by the way.

 

[pab1]

Very nice group! Different points of impact after the first shot are not uncommon, especially if the bore is not wiped between shots. IMO, when this is an issue, the first shot is the most important to be zeroed since you don't usually hunt big game with a fouled bore.

 

[Hans74]

Sorry I still haven't figured out how this forum works if I go to the preview. I had to edit before I was done.

 

[Hans74]

I know enough to get the oil out before I leave home. This particular rifle will put the first shot in the group or just below it almost touching no more than a finger or two width below.
This is what has always puzzled me.

 

[larryp]

That is why a lot of target shooters (and some hunters)fire what's called a fouling shot at some target that doesn't count before competition or going out hunting. My .62 musket is the same way. First shot is always low and right with the rest centered.

 

[galamb]

Is this a hooked breech rifle or did you have the barrel out for cleaning?

If this is the case then often the first shot "puts the barrel back" where it wants to sit..

 

[F.G. Ford]

Always, before hunt or shooting for score, I load a blank shot to foul the barrel, Also always wipe the barrel clean and dry with an alcohol wet patch, to remove any residual oil in the barrel.
The oil will always throw you first shot off center. If it doesn't in your gun, you are one of the few.
Fred

 

[larryp]

No the barrel is never taken out for cleaning as it's pinned in place and somewhat of a pain to remove. I always run a couple dry patches down the barrel to remove any oil before shooting but that first shot is always low and right some. All the others after that are centered. I believe that there's always some oil residue left no matter how much I swab until a load is fired.

 

[larryp]

I agree that it's the oil residue as I can swab the barrel with a spit patch during shooting and it won't affect the next shot's impact. That first shot burns/blows out the oil residue.

 

[pab1]

Sorry I still haven't figured out how this forum works if I go to the preview. I had to edit before I was done.

My comment was on the original post of the top target. Not sure what happened on the second target other than we all have times we don't shoot as well as we could.

 

[Don Steele]

When you shot that second target, were you using pre-lubed patch material from the previous session..??
I can't explain it, but I have OBSERVED my own homemade pre-lubed strips of patch material deteriorate over time with some grease-type lubes on them. The material tears easily when loading....and group integrity goes down the drain.

 

[don hepler]

It doesn't look like we're comparing "apples to apples". In the first target you're shooting at 50 yards, with what appears to be a much larger bullet, and it doesn't look like a round ball hole. In the second target you said you're shooting at 100 yards, and it appears to be a small caliber round ball. You mention two rifles, and I'm curious about the calibers, projectiles, etc.

Am I missing something here..... cause I really don't see the problem.

 

[Hans74]

The 50 yd target was shot using a new patch I wanted to try. It was a lot tighter than the ticking or Drill patches I normally use. There was also a difference in the temperature by about 50 degrees. My groups normally don't open this much between 50 and 100 yards.

 

[Hans74]

Same rifle just a different target backer.
The first had a old corrugated campaign poster and the second had a damp from the rains cardboard backer. The harder plastic backer seems to cut a cleaner hole than the cardboard.

 

[Rifleman1776]

changing patch material and lube.

Those can be major factors with ml rifles. They is fussy critters and like wat they like. Once you find the combo that suits them best, stick with it.

 

[mooman76]

I know enough to get the oil out before I leave home. This particular rifle will put the first shot in the group or just below it almost touching no more than a finger or two width below.
This is what has always puzzled me.

This is normal even in modern rifles for the first shot to be off a little.

 

[Hans74]

lots of truth in that.

 

[jamesthomas]

You said you shot the top target last fall before deer season, and the bottom target was shot a few days ago. IMHO the difference is that you don't shoot enough. I think you just need to shoot more often. You could be having a flinters flinch that your not aware of and that is causing your groups to be all over the place. Plus if your using the same pre-lubed patches from last year could be part of the problem also. Always use new patches and shoot often to keep in the groove. To be consistant you need to shoot as often as possible (every 2 weeks at least).

 

[Hans74]

:grin: all this lube stuff kinda reminds me of the old Sargent York movie when they stood for inspection arms and the 2nd Lewie looked down Pushers barrel and saw all that grease I it and Pusher said wont that make the bullet go faster?? :grin:

I feel the low first shot has a lot to do with barrel hangtime/Jump. I don't have one of those chronographs to check out what the difference is between the first and second shot in velocity.