Charge weight

[Hein]

Hi everyone

I have heard a few comments that a BP charge is measured in volume and not specifically in weight. Is there actually a diffirence? Will a scale not assist in getting a more uniform shot? I do understand that it is faster to measure in volume, how can a person then be certain that you actually have the same charge everytime
thanks for the info.

Hein
Johannesburg
South Africa

 

Ahhhh, 'nuther South African black powder shooter. I correspond with a fellow shooter via e-mail almost daily.
He is from Jo'burg.
Anyway here is the scoop on b.p. volume vs. weight.
Black powder is very inefficient stuff. Approximately 1/2 of the burned powder is converted to gases and the other 1/2 stays in solids in the form of fouling of various chemical compounds. The black powder itself is NOT a compound at all but an intimate mixture of the 3 well known base ingredients.
And yes even though all black powders use the same 75, 15, 10 ratio there is a great difference in brands of black. I'm not real sure but I'll venture to say all you can get where you live is Wano, a German powder, though some Swiss might be available now.
The difference in powders varies as the HOW the mixture is formed and the purity of the saltpeter, sulphur and the kind of wood used for the charcoal.
Also the moisture content of the powder can affect performance.
Back to your question.
Since black powder is inefficient compared to modern smokeless it is not load sensitive. You, your firearm, or chronograph will never tell the difference between 80 or 83 grains by weight.
In large calibers it is unlikely you would notice any difference at all in even five grain increments.
That is why volume is the easiest way to measure your powder.
It makes no sense to weigh, for instance, exactly 83 grains each time you load as the performance will not vary from 77 grains to 86 grains, or 90 to 95 grains and so on.
Now there will be a noticable difference in very small bores, such as the little .32's,36's, and 40's with a five grain spread, but not really very much.
Just for giggles try this. Set your volume measure to, say 100 grains, then dump the charge on your scale. It might weigh 110 grains or even 90 grains, but the trick here is to weigh ten volume charges in a row and I'll bet they will weigh plus or minus 3 grains each time.
In calibers over .45 you will never notice the difference in that small amount of variance.
Now in the modern smokeless world 5 grain variance is huge, but not in black powder.
You folks having any luck getting muzzle loaders deregulated?
In the U.S. we need not apply for a license to buy black powder weapons. We should all feel very lucky here.
Hope this helps.
Let us know what type of black powder weapons you shoot/hunt with and so forth.
And good to hear from you.
Cheers,
Maxi

 

"

You folks having any luck getting muzzle loaders deregulated?

"
: At this time, in Canada, flintlock long arms aren't considered firearms in that they don't have to be registered. The problem is that the police don't know this and they're the ones checking registration papers.
: When a police person comes up to you and demands "Your Papers, Please!"- what does that remind you of?
:Cap-lock rifles and shotguns have to be registered.
Daryl

 

Zeke Heil!!!!!
I have an e-friend in S.A. that has been waiting for his license to possess a b.p. revolver for at least 3 months. The ploce just told him it would another SIX months yet.
Mind you it's PAID for. That's the law. You buy it then apply for the license to possess it!
Right now percussion caps are dried up.
That's what happens when a government agency gets out of control. It HAS TO justify it's existance, so it creates red tape and new legislation to justify it's existance.
Sound like O.S.H.A.? How 'bout the BATF?
Most people don't know the BATF went from "liquor" and still busters to an agency much bigger than the FBI.
After the Waco fiasco they got neutered and placed under the control of the FBI.

 

[Hein]

Hi

It is almost humorous to now find that there is now a delay in ALL licence applications. I am a registered collector (although I do not collect anymore) and have a friend that is also registered, even we are not considered to speed up approval, a nice wait is install for us for the new Firearms Act. With this act we will be limited a lot in terms of firearm ownership except and I wish for de-regulation of muzzle loaders. Muzzle loading (if deregulated) will then find an incredible growth in interest.
What was the WACO fiasco?

 

Waco Texas. A group of religious zealots build a private complexe and were stock piling weapons. The BATF raided it and the zealots kicked thier butts in an awfull gun fight.
In the end the complexe was set ablaze killing all but a few inside.
Plug "Waco" into your search engine and you will find details.
Maxi

 

Zeke Heil!!!!!

: EXACTLY!
Daryl

 

[musketman]

Like rollingb states on his post:
History DOES repeat itself!!

 

[nvbirdman]

Hein, I would be very interested in comparing our prices to yours. For example, I am a blue-collar worker, and I bought a Lyman Great Plains rifle kit. It cost me about twelve hours work. Percussion caps cost me about one and a half hours work for one thousand. 100 Speer round balls cost me about one-half hour work, and one pound of black powder(Elephant) is about one-half hour work.

 

[Hein]

I work in the banking sector. An Ardesa (distributed by Traditions) Hawken rifle would cost me around 75 hours of work, the Deerstalker much cheaper at about 35 hours. Black Powder is about 1.5 hours of work. Caps per thousand is about 5.5 hours of work.

 

[strongarm]

There can be a big difference in weight, as much as 20% from type or manufacturer's powder to the next. Different lots of powder can also be different and we arn't even out of the can yet. What happens when you pour the stuff down the barrel? Does it all go down? Does some of it stick to the sides of the barrel? Does some mix with fouling in the barrel? Some contaminate with your patch lube?

Get the best volume measurer you can buy, pour the powder a little higher than the volume you want. tap the measurer three times with you fingernail, strike off the excess and careful pour down the barrel at half cocked. Tap the barrel twice with your palm and you will have consistent loads like the rest of us.

 

[musketman]

This is probly counter-productive, but what if you were able to drop the powder into the breech without the powder touching the sides of the barrel?

There is two ways to do this, one way being combustible cartridges made with nitrated paper...

But what about a drop tube?

Cut a non-sparking tube about two inches short of the barrel's length, glue a funnel to one in of the tube, so you end up with a barrel length funnel... (you need to find a tube and funnel that slides easy into the bore)

Simply slide the tube in the bore it's full length and drop a measured charge directly into the breech, then remove the long funnel, a quick swipe of a rag and the funnel's tube is ready for the next loading...

There you have it, no fouling mixed with your charge and all of the powder is deposited in the breech area...

Great for target shooting, but more to lug out if hunting...

 

[cayugad]

Get yourself an aluminium arrow. Cut the ends off. You can make them in lengths to almost anything you like. Then you could crazy glue the funnel on the one end. Dump your normal charge and then mark the shaft of the arrow so you know where that would go, and cut it off so it stops right above where the charge should go.

On the range, after you swab, you need not worry if the sides of the barrel are still damp, you can bypass all of that and put your charge directly into the breech. Aluminium
should not spark and is stiff enough that it should push past any fowling....

This is an idea from another shooter from another board.

 

[Zonie]

I built such a loading funnel for my Schuetzen out of a piece of 3/8 diameter brass tubing and some brass sheet stock for the funnel.
It works well and adds to "the show" of loading when I am at the shooting range.
Of course there are some people who are totally put off by the idea that you have to play with so many things to get off one shot, but they are the same people who bring the SKS and AK47s out and go thru 150 shots while I'm having fun getting ready for my shot.

 

I'm an unrepentant swabber. I ALWAYS swab with a patch moistened with rubbing alcohol, followed by a dry patch.
Why says you?
'Cause says I.
I've proven to myself that swabbing contributes to uniform ballistics.
If you have a chronograph you will notice that your first shot from a clean bore will have a lower velocity than #2 from an unswabbed bore. #3 will be will shoot faster than #2 and so on.
Also your E.S. will be higher from a dirty bore.
Will accuracy suffer. Maybe, maybe not, but consistant ballistics does promote accuracy.
Also there is no problem with powder getting stuck on the barrel walls if you wipe between shots.
If you don't wipe I think any powder clinging to the barrel walls would be pushed down with the ball or bullet.
Just my nickles worth (Inflation don'cha'know!)

 

[Hein]

You mention nitraded paper. Will cigarette paper also work? Does this not contribute to extra fowling?